Scottish independence.

[Georgies Dad]

To change the subject

I think England should also have a referendum to see if they should go Independant


Good luck to the people of Scotland and vote for what you think is best for Scotland.

Also remember a lot of brave people from Scotland Wales Northern Ireland and England sacrificed their lives in the last 2 world wars to make Great Britain what it is today.

Vote with your head and not your heart and good luck whatever the result

[FLYER]

And here is another good reason to vote YES.

As if being dumped on by a stream of tory governments isnt bad enough there is a fair chance that DAVE could be replaced by the loon BORIS.

tally ho.....

[coolcat]

Originally Posted by FLYER

And here is another good reason to vote YES.

As if being dumped on by a stream of tory governments isnt bad enough there is a fair chance that DAVE could be replaced by the loon BORIS.

tally ho.....

......but Boris is the best thing that ever happened to 'Have I Got News For You'

[FLYER]

Originally Posted by coolcat

......but Boris is the best thing that ever happened to 'Have I Got News For You'

What was that line that Sting sang.

(they all seem like game show hosts to me).

[Woof25]

Originally Posted by Roverite

Without wishing to offend, you are a Londoner living in what Boris calls "the Capital of the World" and regardless of the Scottish vote, many Englishmen actually do feel like throwing stones at Parliament.

I am a Londoner, born within the sounds of Bow Bells (although they weren't ringing at the time because we were at war with Germany), but I have also lived in Essex, Surrey, Hertforshire, Worcestershire, Shropshire (currently) and Cornwall for about 20 years. The further out you go from London, the more resentment you will find, even starting in the outlying parts of Essex. There is a feeling that London dominates and draws everything into London and that the outlying parts are fed a few crumbs now and again to keep them quiet.

Cornwall, for example has one of the lowest wage rates in the UK, but house prices are sky high because 'up country' people buy up the properties with their wealth, either for retirement, or as holiday homes. Even 'National wage rate' jobs in Cornwall, don't get the added incentive of London Weighting. Services in the outlying areas are constantly being centralised for 'efficiency', but that means that hospitals are miles away from the majority of the inhabitants. Police custody suites are centralised, meaning that a prisoner has to be taken 30+ miles to be charged; this just doesn't happen in London. London is lit up like a Christmas tree at night and has the highest pollution rate in the EU, but Boris wants us all to get out of our cars, not just Londoners.

Parliament introduced 24 hour drinking and MPs enjoy cheap booze in the house, but they raise the alcohol duty to deter the binge drinkers, which often means that the occasional drinker now can't afford the odd pint.

I know there is no simple answer and that there will always be inequality, but the UK has become very unequal over the last 30 years and that is why a lot of us want to throw stones. I have no political allegiance, but I would like to see a bit more common, and I mean common, sense, instead of the institutianalised leadership we currently have. At the time of the MPs expenses scandal, it was said that 'they just don't get it', and this is the same. They talk the talk, but they just don't understand.

I apologise for highjacking the Scottish referendum debate and for this rant, but I do think it is relevant to some of the posts on here.

Roverite.

I take no offence and like you have lived in many parts of england and seen trhe different standards of living having been born in north dervon I think I can claim to know something about th,e issues you raise.

But london cannot be blamed for what the counties can provide to earn a living most are not industalized and those that were have lost out to the asian tiger countries
The world is changing and no country is immune. I too was a war baby and even worked in tower hamlets for a number of years and what good people trhey were, its all change there too the docks now down river and the area becoming more genterised,sas to see not sure how you stop it.

At least in Kernow you have clean air fabulous countryside good fishing and fabulous neighbours in devon As to resources such as health being remote that was true when I was small in the 40's if you needed specialist treatment you either went to exeter 45 miles away or Bristol even further.

What ever the result of the referendum I hope the people of scotland accept it with good grace and acknowledge that england and wales have their own issues and their parliament will have to address the problems highlighted by this protacted debate.

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by scooterchick

So you think the rest of the UK should be allowed to decide whether they want to keep us? Like a pet?

Scotland's future has been dictated by England for hundreds of years already. And I really hope that does change.

No, Anna, that's not what I said! However your reply does show how extreme interpretations can be mistakenly made of what I would call a reasonable question and does indicate the need for a measured discussion of all this rather than the ill-mannered bullying we have all seen on TV, both News programmes and the bad tempered gladiator type affairs such as Darling/Salmond. There is also of course the deliberate misunderstanding of mischief makers and commentators on various forums (I hasten to add not in your case!).

My general position: The question of Independence is not just about Scotland although national passion plays a very large part in the answer. I said elsewhere some time ago that if I were Scottish I would be very seriously considering voting Yes because I believe in self-determination.

But that is not the whole picture. If Scotland becomes Independent, and I don't think the stated aims of the SNP amount to Independence, then the effect will be massively serious on the rUK for the economy, for the defence of all of these islands (especially in these terribly violent times), and the influence of the whole UK in the world (global investments and trade agreements etc). These things are vital to the viability of both UK and Scotland in present form and would change substantially following separation.

It seems to me there are more things to concern us than the pipe dreams of an opportunistic minor political party who want to gain personal glory in the history books.

For all these reasons, and many more, I believe the whole of the UK electorate, if we believe in democracy, should have been consulted on the matter. After all, we all have an equal interest in the outcome. I'm not saying rUK should necessarily have had a vote on the outcome, merely that the rabble in Westminster have deliberately ignored the wishes and electoral rights of millions of people just for appearances' sake.

I think it's fair to say that by far the greater majority of English, Welsh, and N. Irish would hugely prefer Scotland to remain an integral part of UK, for its own sake as well as everybody else's. The incompetent over-privileged fools in Westminster have completely lost sight of how we are to be governed and are no longer fit for purpose.

Your remark "Like a pet?" I'm sure was tongue in cheek! Although from any other source would be bound to cause offence!


Your last line concerning Scotland's future being decided for hundreds of years by England is not entirely true. Scotland has several times voted heavily in favour of a Socialist party which has gone on to government, the last one having a Scottish Chancellor and a Scottish(ish) Prime Minister! In addition, the UK civil service is predominantly staffed by Scottish people! So you could say Scotland has had the government it voted for on more than one occasion! There is also the ever so slightly important point that a number of Scottish constituency MP's are welcome to vote on matters that affect only English constituents!! You never had it so good (to quote that man of the people Harold Macmillan! Isn't that a Scottish name?).

Whatever the outcome, I would hope that relationships remain cordial and the head rules the heart!

[CFS75]

I first visited and lived in Scotland over 60 years ago - early 1950s - and enjoyed my stay there. It left me with many memories that are still so clear to me.

The Education System, schools and colleges, particularly Herriot Watt, were far better than those I had experienced at home in England.

The Legal System was Scottish and completely different to that of England. I still consider the 'Not Proven' verdict an excellent addition/alternative to either Guilty or Not Guilty.

The Licencing Laws (Drinking hours) at that time were baffling to me! If I remember correctly only travellers could be served alcohol on Sundays, so you had to go out of town to find a pub that would serve you as a traveller. I do remember the sight of men drinking bottles of spirits in the streets in town because the pubs were not open, and then laying drunk in doorways later at night.

The Weather north of the border I found to be several degrees colder, and the persistant rain dismissed as 'Scotch Mist'. The summer seemed to be a brief period between the end of July and beginning of August!

It definitely felt to be another country and I was surprised to find that although I supported the Scotland football team, except when they played England, my Scottish friends always supported England's opponents.

I first heard of the SNP in 1953 when they blew up a electricity pylon on the Scotland/Northumberland border as a protest against sending Scottish hydro electricity into England. Unfortunately that night the electricity was coming into Scotland from the coal fired power stations in the north of England, and a large area of Scotland was plunged into darkness. I do hope that the SNP have not forgotten that slight error in their planning of the operation.

I have visited Scotland many times over the years - the weather does not improve much - but it is a great country and I wish it and my old friends in Scotland all the best for the future.

Colin

[maxi_crawf]

And of course the other thing is that many will be thinking on Friday morning, thank God that's over with, unfortunately on Friday morning, yes or no, it will only be the beginning of it! and if it's a very close No then I would not be surprised if Mr S will start planning a Neverendum.
A bit like Ireland, keep having a referendum till you get the result you want.

[wraymond]

Just watched Dimblebee interviewing G. Brown and A. Salmond. I'm thoroughly disgusted with myself. I actually cheered at GB's performance - he was magnificent, but I can't stand him.

I must be on the turn or something. He was extremely polite yet managed to put Dimblebee right in his place and never put a foot wrong. Never lost his temper and never raised his voice.

Hold on, I've got it. He is now in his natural zone - a campaigning Labour politician espousing his long term beliefs! All that Chancellor and Prime Minister rubbish was out of his depth. Like a top class salesman getting promoted to Manager because he can sell. His boss doesn't know it takes different skills and promotes people up to their incompetence level. Maybe he thinks, and I hope I'm not doing him an injustice here, he might just get to be First Minister at the next UK general election. Any bets?

[rich17865]

Last chance to get some cash on,

Thus mornings odds,

No 1/4
Yes 7/2