Faulty Injectors - synergy 2 - Barnsley

[Rolled1]

reading through this thread I had similar problems with my ZT CDTi,ran 100%,fitted a Synergy,ok for a few days then went downhill drastically,turning down the Synergy worked for a while but problem returned,got so bad the car wouldnt tolerate the Synergy,even when turned off! I tried all sorts,nothing worked and I had discounted the Synergy because it was switched off however I decided to completely remove the Synergy and when I did the car returned to normal.I contacted Roverron and he asked me to return the box,this was the week before Christmas past,within a few days he returned the Synergy,didnt tell me exactly what the problem was but it was to do with the circuitry,total cost £10!! fitted the Synergy again and everything back to normal.If yours is still connected it costs nothing to remove it completely and see what happens.Good luck

[1gp]

Originally Posted by BigRuss

Thanks JDC, going to be having a careful look for a collapsed cat when we examine the exhaust system.



Plugging in another ecu won't work as they need to be matched to the car, as far as I am aware the ECU has not been wet.

Russ

sorry russ, yes it would have to be remapped... and op said it had been wet!.

[1gp]

Originally Posted by Rolled1

reading through this thread I had similar problems with my ZT CDTi,ran 100%,fitted a Synergy,ok for a few days then went downhill drastically,turning down the Synergy worked for a while but problem returned,got so bad the car wouldnt tolerate the Synergy,even when turned off! I tried all sorts,nothing worked and I had discounted the Synergy because it was switched off however I decided to completely remove the Synergy and when I did the car returned to normal.I contacted Roverron and he asked me to return the box,this was the week before Christmas past,within a few days he returned the Synergy,didnt tell me exactly what the problem was but it was to do with the circuitry,total cost £10!! fitted the Synergy again and everything back to normal.If yours is still connected it costs nothing to remove it completely and see what happens.Good luck

nice post rolled 1. i have read alot about these synergys having to go to be repaired , are the gremlins starting to appear. how old is your synergy now ? .:lol:

[Rolled1]

Originally Posted by 1gp

nice post rolled 1. i have read alot about these synergys having to go to be repaired , are the gremlins starting to appear. how old is your synergy now ? .:lol:

Hi,I bought the Synergy in December 2nd hand off ebay so no idea how old it is,the seller said it was fairly new but he was selling it as he no longer had the car,I now suspect he knew it was faulty and was just getting rid of it.As I mentioned already it ran fine for around a week before the problems began,I still cant figure out how it was able to cause so much trouble even when switched off? perhaps the on/off switch was faulty and it was still on? When completely unplugged the problems disappeared.
All credit to Roverron though,he was able to fix it for a tenner and it has been performing brilliantly since Christmas.Good luck :lol:

[BigRuss]

Originally Posted by DazBat

Russ,

Prior to the MAF replacement the ECU did get a soaking, the 'local Garage' dried it out and then have sealed the ecu in
The first time I came down to see you, we were going to have a look at exactly what they had done but never got around to it.

Originally Posted by 1gp

sorry russ, yes it would have to be remapped... and op said it had been wet!.

Sorry both, had temporarily forgotten about the ecu previously being wet was thinking wrong car.

The Synergy fitted to this car is new and has already been returned to Ron for checking and re-programming. The car still smokes considerably (but not as much) with the Synergy removed.

The fuel pressures are where they should be along with the main injector capacitor voltages within the ECU. (79V cap. 1 and 29V cap. 2, (later type manual ECU))

Although I wouldn't totally discount anything, the ecu appears to be working as it should.

Alan at Lynx considers the injector readings to be unlikely to be causing the smoke, if the ecu had been responsible then IMHO there would have been little or no improvement after the use of the injector cleaner?.

I think the sensible thing to do is to go through the no/low cost options first and see what we can find.


Russ

[Roverron]

Originally Posted by BigRuss

Sorry both, had temporarily forgotten about the ecu previously being wet was thinking wrong car.

The Synergy fitted to this car is new and has already been returned to Ron for checking and re-programming. The car still smokes considerably (but not as much) with the Synergy removed.

The fuel pressures are where they should be along with the main injector capacitor voltages within the ECU. (79V cap. 1 and 29V cap. 2, (later type manual ECU))

Although I wouldn't totally discount anything, the ecu appears to be working as it should.

Alan at Lynx considers the injector readings to be unlikely to be causing the smoke, if the ecu had been responsible then IMHO there would have been little or no improvement after the use of the injector cleaner?.

I think the sensible thing to do is to go through the no/low cost options first and see what we can find.


Russ

Are you sure it is not the fuel but lack of air that is responsible for the smoke?

The Synergy 1 or 2 do not cause significant smoke if all the usual culprits have been eliminated - egr, pcv, intercooler seals. Injectors don't cause it - white smoke if they are dribbling constantly perhaps.

Have you checked the torbo inlet pipe and wastegate? I have had a few cases where the inlet hose on the turbo had delaminated internally blocking the turbo inlet. You can only check by removing it.
I've also known the wastegate linkage to come apart or seizing.

Ron

[Roverron]

Originally Posted by 1gp

nice post rolled 1. i have read alot about these synergys having to go to be repaired , are the gremlins starting to appear. how old is your synergy now ? .:lol:

The Synergys have been on sale for 5 years and I am very pleased with the negligible reliability problems or I wouldn't be providing a 5year warranty!

I suspect that some of the under 1% that do need attention have at some stage been incorrectly connected. This does not usually lead to instant failure but as with static damage can lead to future reliability issues.

In the case of the Freelander TD4, Landrover released tech bulletin LTB00052 in 2007 which describes water ingress into the wiring loom between ecu and fuel rail pressure sensor. This damages the sensor and cause various performance and starting problems. In some cases the actual process of fitting the Synergy means the sensor plug has to be removed and this causes the symptoms to manifest themselves once the connection is disturbed. Maybe this also occurs on the 75/ZT.

Finally I have come across 2 cases where the wires to the fuel rail sensor have fractured - they are thin and quite brittle and heat from the nearby egr supply pipe hardens the insulation. Once again, left alone no problem occurs but once disturbed for any reason, thereafter symptoms appear.
Ron

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Roverron

Are you sure it is not the fuel but lack of air that is responsible for the smoke?

Have you checked the torbo inlet pipe and wastegate? I have had a few cases where the inlet hose on the turbo had delaminated internally blocking the turbo inlet. You can only check by removing it.
I've also known the wastegate linkage to come apart or seizing.

Ron

Morning Chaps
Ron do you mean the plastic elbow that unclips next to the thermostat? (just after the MAF)
I've never seen one de laminate unless you mean a different pipe on the TD4.
Come to think of it there's another breather pipe that pushes on at this point
Pic below (concertina part pulls off to the left of grommet item 5)
Check that the smaller pipe or the elbow itself hasn't been left off when someone possibly changed the STAT!! There is no clip on those.

(image courtesy of Rimmers)

[BigRuss]

Originally Posted by Roverron

Are you sure it is not the fuel but lack of air that is responsible for the smoke?

The Synergy 1 or 2 do not cause significant smoke if all the usual culprits have been eliminated - egr, pcv, intercooler seals. Injectors don't cause it - white smoke if they are dribbling constantly perhaps.

Have you checked the turbo inlet pipe and wastegate? I have had a few cases where the inlet hose on the turbo had delaminated internally blocking the turbo inlet. You can only check by removing it.
I've also known the wastegate linkage to come apart or seizing.

Ron

Morning Ron and Jules, thanks for your inputs, following confirmation from Alan that from the injector readings that this would not cause the smoke it's looking like there is something causing a lack of air.

The EGR has been bypassed with one of Dave's units, the PCV is one of the new filterless design units and new Vitron seals have been fitted to the intercooler along with a new air cleaner.

Unfortunately there won't be an opportunity to inspect the inlet hose for the turbo or the linkages until possibly next weekend due to Darren's work commitments as he needs the car for work.

All pipework at the intercooler end is secure with no sign of damage as far as we could detect.

Thanks for the diagram Jules, I will be having a careful look at the hose especially that small one near the thermostat.

The problem existed before the Synergy was fitted and was obvious that it was amplifying the problem and in no way was it responsible for it.

I've certainly never had any reliability problems with the Synergy mine's been fitted for 2 1/2 years and was second hand when I bought it.

Russ

[Jules]

We've fitted many Synergies & the older TU3 versions with no comebacks to date. (apart from our own fit which wouldn't rev above 3000 RPM!!!
We hadn't plugged the fuel rail plug in firmly enough)