Does using a Synergy module kill the High Pressure Fuel Pump

[tdi90]

Ron wont respond because since the 160 remap has been out, his product has been be-littled, where as before the 160 map came out the ron box WAS the mutts nuts.

THATS NOT A DIG AT ANYONE JUST MY OWN OBSERVATION. I stated earlier in the thread, I've had a synergy in the past and now have the 160 re-map. And yes the 160 re-map is better.

[mrvandango]

After having the HP pump replaced and still having issues I would have to agree with James.uk that injectors sound a very likely cause there, maybe exacerbated by the Synergy? The poor starting and cutting out are exactly the troubles that I had until they were replaced.

[ukmastiff]

Isnt it amazing how things move on, I can remember when the Synergy was touted on this form as fantastic and a true must have for every CDT owner.

Now it seems the 160 remap is the amazing must have and all sorts of down sides for the synergy are touted.

I'm not going to draw any conclusions as to why that might be but it certainly seems to be the case, a bit of a shame I think personally.

How long until the day when the 160 remap receives similar treatment I wonder ?

Mas

[rich17865]

I would be interested in the view of people defending the tuning box.

How do you think the device works?

What do you see as the negatives of your perception of its operation.

I will also say I use a tuning box on my van, while it does increase the oomph, the black smoke is outstanding.

[Roverron]

The Synergy does NOT kill the injection pump nor any other component.

There are thousands in modules in existence, both single and twin channel and we regularly hear from happy customers with the very early ones from 2005 as well as later ones. Sales are as high as ever and since all tuning boxes work in the same way, why single out the Synergy and not attack the whole common rail tuning box industry?

I also practice what I preach and have used, as has colleague Darren at Energy Tuning, the Synergy 1 or 2 on EVERY diesel we've owned. Darren has one on his XF 2.7v6 + a remap.
Neither of us has ever had injector or injection pump problems and neither have any friends and family.
We also have never been contacted by any customer directly or through a forum accusing our products of damaging their engine in anyway.

It is only the Mg Rover forums where axes are ground by a few with ulterior motives. It shows they are amateurs, because no business publicly attacks a rival's product - its totally unprofessional and smacks of desperation.

On the subject of the 160 remap, we've had emails and calls about the side effects and have removed it from several 75 & ZTs.
Personally, I am satisfied that the best result by far is a combination of a Synergy + a mild remap.
This worked amazingly well on my X-Type and a Vectra 120bhp (8v 1.9engine) has just seen 178bhp with our remap and box at a dyno shoot out. The Vectra owners who had the 'club remapper' do their cars were getting masses of smoke and in some cases less bhp even on the 16v engine.

Getting back to injector and pump problems, these are most likely due to excessively dirty fuel filter from the increased use of bio diesel in pump fuel. No filter is 100% effective at removing all particles - check out the photo on my blog page:
http://www.tuning-diesels.co.uk/ron-s-blog-page/

I don't intend to get into a public discussion or slanging match but will be happy to answer pms or email.

[rich17865]

Originally Posted by Roverron

The Synergy does NOT kill the injection pump nor any other component.

There are thousands in modules in existence, both single and twin channel and we regularly hear from happy customers with the very early ones from 2005 as well as later ones. Sales are as high as ever and since all tuning boxes work in the same way, why single out the Synergy and not attack the whole common rail tuning box industry?

I also practice what I preach and have used, as has colleague Darren at Energy Tuning, the Synergy 1 or 2 on EVERY diesel we've owned. Darren has one on his XF 2.7v6 + a remap.
Neither of us has ever had injector or injection pump problems and neither have any friends and family.
We also have never been contacted by any customer directly or through a forum accusing our products of damaging their engine in anyway.

It is only the Mg Rover forums where axes are ground by a few with ulterior motives. It shows they are amateurs, because no business publicly attacks a rival's product - its totally unprofessional and smacks of desperation.

On the subject of the 160 remap, we've had emails and calls about the side effects and have removed it from several 75 & ZTs.
Personally, I am satisfied that the best result by far is a combination of a Synergy + a mild remap.
This worked amazingly well on my X-Type and a Vectra 120bhp (8v 1.9engine) has just seen 178bhp with our remap and box at a dyno shoot out. The Vectra owners who had the 'club remapper' do their cars were getting masses of smoke and in some cases less bhp even on the 16v engine.

Getting back to injector and pump problems, these are most likely due to excessively dirty fuel filter from the increased use of bio diesel in pump fuel. No filter is 100% effective at removing all particles - check out the photo on my blog page:
http://www.tuning-diesels.co.uk/ron-s-blog-page/

I don't intend to get into a public discussion or slanging match but will be happy to answer pms or email.

I would be interested to learn about the side effects of the 160 map that you speak of, I used to have a diesel with this map and saw only extra smoke as a negative, but the injectors needed replacing, so probably a moot point.

[ukmastiff]

Here's a fact for you not conjecture.

I ran two silver zt's at the same time.
One with a synergy and one without , both suffered pump failure. My old Connie 75 came to me from an elderly gent who had never even heard of a tuning box and guess what ? Yep pump failure. Read in to it what you will but its obvious to me that 100 to 150 thou is about the life of these pumps 'in many cases'. As mentioned diesel can vary a lot and can be pretty hard on a fuel system but is 100,000 plus really that bad for any pump ?

Oh and I don't sell synergys or remaps, I don't need to defend any of them I just love ZT/75 diesels. . As a light aside 2 manuals clutches failed one auto it didn't fail , now I hate the manuals Lol

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by Roverron

The Synergy does NOT kill the injection pump nor any other component.

There are thousands in modules in existence, both single and twin channel and we regularly hear from happy customers with the very early ones from 2005 as well as later ones. Sales are as high as ever and since all tuning boxes work in the same way, why single out the Synergy and not attack the whole common rail tuning box industry?

I also practice what I preach and have used, as has colleague Darren at Energy Tuning, the Synergy 1 or 2 on EVERY diesel we've owned. Darren has one on his XF 2.7v6 + a remap.
Neither of us has ever had injector or injection pump problems and neither have any friends and family.
We also have never been contacted by any customer directly or through a forum accusing our products of damaging their engine in anyway.

It is only the Mg Rover forums where axes are ground by a few with ulterior motives. It shows they are amateurs, because no business publicly attacks a rival's product - its totally unprofessional and smacks of desperation.

On the subject of the 160 remap, we've had emails and calls about the side effects and have removed it from several 75 & ZTs.
Personally, I am satisfied that the best result by far is a combination of a Synergy + a mild remap.
This worked amazingly well on my X-Type and a Vectra 120bhp (8v 1.9engine) has just seen 178bhp with our remap and box at a dyno shoot out. The Vectra owners who had the 'club remapper' do their cars were getting masses of smoke and in some cases less bhp even on the 16v engine.

Getting back to injector and pump problems, these are most likely due to excessively dirty fuel filter from the increased use of bio diesel in pump fuel. No filter is 100% effective at removing all particles - check out the photo on my blog page:
http://www.tuning-diesels.co.uk/ron-s-blog-page/

I don't intend to get into a public discussion or slanging match but will be happy to answer pms or email.

Would you like to produce evidence of this Ron ?

I always invite customers to road test their car post upgrade, and if they are not entirely happy with the results restore their car to the previous state free of charge.

I have not on any occasion ever had a single customer wishing to do so, so I wonder why they would pay someone else to carry out this work.

As previously stated within this thread, my experience of HP pump failure is fairly limited, however in each and every case the car was fitted with a HP sensor attenuation "tuning module".

Rather than "smacking of desperation", I am an enthusiast first and last, with the interests of other owners and enthusiasts foremost.

This is not to say I am a rank amateur simply because I do not make my living from T4 work alone, and indeed if I never ever connected up to another car in my entire life would not bother me one jot

I do what I do simply because I enjoy it, not because of some secret desire to rubbish one persons products in favour of my own, and please don't feel singled out because I chose to send the Synergy 2a fitted to my own car by a previous owner to landfill after overhauling the high pressure pump

I would have done exactly the same had it been a competitor's unit


Brian

[Jakg]

Originally Posted by ukmastiff

Here's a fact for you not conjecture.

I ran two silver zt's at the same time.
One with a synergy and one without , both suffered pump failure. My old Connie 75 came to me from an elderly gent who had never even heard of a tuning box and guess what ? Yep pump failure. Read in to it what you will but its obvious to me that 100 to 150 thou is about the life of these pumps 'in many cases'. As mentioned diesel can vary a lot and can be pretty hard on a fuel system but is 100,000 plus really that bad for any pump ?

Oh and I don't sell synergys or remaps, I don't need to defend any of them I just love ZT/75 diesels. . As a light aside 2 manuals clutches failed one auto it didn't fail , now I hate the manuals Lol

It's importat to note were talking about HP pump failure specifically - the diesels have an ITP (in-tank pump, electric), UBP (under bonnet pump, electric) and an HP pump (high pressure, mechanical).

HP pump failure is fairly rare (whereas the other fuel pumps are well known for their finite life). Usually failure is leaking seals, which causes low fuel pressure which causes the engine to refuse to start. If you look up HP pump failure - the Synergy is often a common factor.

FWIW despite this (and despite having had to replace an HP fuel pump, which is of course the most expensive of all of them!) I still run my car with a Synergy (and the 160 map) because it gives me the best performance.

EDIT - For reference, I bought my car in 2010 with 80k miles on the clock, and it came with a Synergy. It's now done 150k. This means the Synergy's been fitted for >70k & >4 years. The HP fuel pump died at 137k, 2013 (when the car was 9 years old). The "other" fuel pumps were still all original, and now 15k / 1 year later are starting to give trouble.

This is the HP fuel pump in situ. Under the bonnet, drivers side near the alt / starter motor:

[BigRuss]

From my own observations failure of the high pressure pump seals have been mainly on 04/54 and 05 plate cars.

In all cases a "tuning" box has been fitted.

Makes you wonder if there's a change in the seals or indeed a possible quality control issue where the increased pressure created by the tuning boxes initiates failure on these later units rather than those on earlier cars.

Russ