Coolant leak and slow speed fan not working - Page 5

Yorkshire GOC · 23rd April 2020, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Cut

That's interesting. Do you mean it looks unusual or that it's overdue for a change?

TC

Yes i agree - if its a car that does short journeys and low miles between yearly services i would expect golden/clear oil not black

Mr Toad · 23rd April 2020, 19:48

The oil was changed about 10 months ago and the car has only covered about 2500 miles since. I would not have expected the oil to be black. The mayonnaise is not just under the oil filler cap but you can see it inside the engine. I have therefore reached the conclusion that coolant is mixing with the oil as a result of HGF. Given the history and the fact that I cannot find any other leak there does not seem to me to be any other alternative than to take the heads off and have a look. I realise it is a huge job but I have exhausted all other avenues!

Martin

Ps3000 · 23rd April 2020, 20:05

When I had similar symptoms I decided to keep on driving and topping up until something major happened - it did. I had a proper overheat and had to be trailered home. I bought a replacement second hand engine and swapped them - but I did take a look at the old one - the first symptom I missed was a slightly rusty and red-tinged (stained from OAT I reckon) spark plug. My HGF was water getting into the centre front cylinder. No Mayo, no oil and water mixing.

I'm not offering an opinion on the cause of yours - just sharing what happened to me.

My trouble started with a radiator failure - but it also appeared someone had put K-seal in the system at some point so that wasn't necessarily the root of the issue for me.

After changing the radiator, inlet gaskets, thermostat, filler cap and the pipes at the front for stainless ones and bypassing the oil cooler, I was still losing coolant so I gave up trying to find out why and just drove until something blew.

planenut · 23rd April 2020, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Toad

The oil was changed about 10 months ago and the car has only covered about 2500 miles since. I would not have expected the oil to be black. The mayonnaise is not just under the oil filler cap but you can see it inside the engine. I have therefore reached the conclusion that coolant is mixing with the oil as a result of HGF. Given the history and the fact that I cannot find any other leak there does not seem to me to be any other alternative than to take the heads off and have a look. I realise it is a huge job but I have exhausted all other avenues!

Martin

Martin, the reason I asked about "dropping the oil" was that in my mind, draining oil is simple, and once in a container one could see if there was contamination and what it is. It's a lot easier and cheaper than taking a head off.
Good luck.

T-Cut · 23rd April 2020, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Toad

The oil was changed about 10 months ago and the car has only covered about 2500 miles since. I would not have expected the oil to be black.

Do you use OAT antifreeze? If so, I can tell you that if the 50% mixture gets into the sump in high volume and the car is driven for short while, the result is a black viscous emulsion that isn't remotely like mayonnaise.It looks more like molten bitumen. whether this effect is specific to OAT I don't know.

I'd suggest you drop the oil and take a closer look. If the above has happened, it will take days to empty due to the high viscosity. I recently had a catastrophic failure of the OEM HG due to seal delamination. The coolant was dumped into the sump. I was about 15 miles from home and risked a very slow drive back after topping up the cooling system. I couldn't believe what came out.

EDIT: I have a 1.8Turbo

TC

Mr Toad · 27th April 2020, 20:15

Well I decided to "bite the bullit" and take the heads off. What I found was that the insides of the cam covers were completely covered with mayonnaise. I have never seen anything like it before. Both head gaskets seemed to be OK so the only conclusion that I have reached is that there must be an internal crack somewhere. Where and how this could have occurred is a complete mystery but it is looking terminal.

I have to say that I had forgotten how painful this job is and for this to happen to an engine that has only covered about 63,000 miles and been meticulously maintained is really quite shocking.

Simon was right that it wasn't HGF but it looks like it is much worse.

Martin

SD1too · 28th April 2020, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Toad

Simon was right that it wasn't HGF ...

Thank you Martin, that's very courteous of you.

I'm more accustomed to hearing from certain quarters that my investigative nature and lifetime of successful and economic car maintenance and repair is worthless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Toad

What I found was that the insides of the cam covers were completely covered with mayonnaise.

That's interesting. Were the camshafts and valve gear similarly covered or is the mayonnaise only found on the covers? Please let me know and in the meantime I urge you not to speculate on theories such as internal cracks which can never practically be proven.

Simon

T-Cut · 28th April 2020, 20:07

What's the oil like? Did you drain it out?

TC

kaiser · 29th April 2020, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Toad

Well I decided to "bite the bullit" and take the heads off. What I found was that the insides of the cam covers were completely covered with mayonnaise. I have never seen anything like it before. Both head gaskets seemed to be OK so the only conclusion that I have reached is that there must be an internal crack somewhere. Where and how this could have occurred is a complete mystery but it is looking terminal.

I have to say that I had forgotten how painful this job is and for this to happen to an engine that has only covered about 63,000 miles and been meticulously maintained is really quite shocking.

Simon was right that it wasn't HGF but it looks like it is much worse.

Martin

Well, there you go. ASS U ME. That is what assume stands for.
Any ***** could have told you that HGF was unlikely.
Well, hang on a mo, a couple of *****s actually did!!
And now you are assuming again. You must break that habit, it is no good!

A crack. Well, while that is a possibility, it is also the least likely option in my view. I have seen/heard of one crack in a V6 block, so while possible, I would take it to be rather rare. But someone might be able to cast more light on this topic.
But there you go, you lose your head in a panic, well let me re phrase you have now lost your heads and it has given you very little until now.

And, btw. I do admire your honesty. Not many people will stand up and get counted when making a mistake.

https:imgur.com/h4Rv365/

Here is a picture of a crack on cylinder no 6 on a V6. How and why I don't know. And no, I could not get the pic to post. This crack would have been visible from the bottom of the engine I guess. Look at the white deposit on the block below the cylinder. Even after 10 years, a water leak is clearly visible as a whitish deposit on the engine casing. So, IF, you have a crack, it might be worth to check with the oil pan off.
But at the moment, the best option is a good replacement engine, I guess.

Best of luck!

Mr Toad · 29th April 2020, 17:50

The mayonnaise is confined to under the cam covers. I have not fully drained the oil but I can see it is black no doubt coolant mixing with the oil.

I have been giving this a lot of thought and I have decided to have the cylinder heads pressure tested and then see what happens. I think it less likely that the block has cracked but you never know!

I will keep you posted.

Martin

23rd April 2020, 19:48	#42
Mr Toad Avid contributor Rover 75 V8 tourer & MG ZTT & MG RV8 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 138 Thanks: 41 Thanked 24 Times in 14 Posts	The oil was changed about 10 months ago and the car has only covered about 2500 miles since. I would not have expected the oil to be black. The mayonnaise is not just under the oil filler cap but you can see it inside the engine. I have therefore reached the conclusion that coolant is mixing with the oil as a result of HGF. Given the history and the fact that I cannot find any other leak there does not seem to me to be any other alternative than to take the heads off and have a look. I realise it is a huge job but I have exhausted all other avenues! Martin

23rd April 2020, 20:05	#43
Ps3000 Gets stuck in None at moment Join Date: May 2013 Location: Loughborough Posts: 899 Thanks: 230 Thanked 125 Times in 113 Posts	When I had similar symptoms I decided to keep on driving and topping up until something major happened - it did. I had a proper overheat and had to be trailered home. I bought a replacement second hand engine and swapped them - but I did take a look at the old one - the first symptom I missed was a slightly rusty and red-tinged (stained from OAT I reckon) spark plug. My HGF was water getting into the centre front cylinder. No Mayo, no oil and water mixing. I'm not offering an opinion on the cause of yours - just sharing what happened to me. My trouble started with a radiator failure - but it also appeared someone had put K-seal in the system at some point so that wasn't necessarily the root of the issue for me. After changing the radiator, inlet gaskets, thermostat, filler cap and the pipes at the front for stainless ones and bypassing the oil cooler, I was still losing coolant so I gave up trying to find out why and just drove until something blew.

27th April 2020, 20:15	#46
Mr Toad Avid contributor Rover 75 V8 tourer & MG ZTT & MG RV8 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 138 Thanks: 41 Thanked 24 Times in 14 Posts	Well I decided to "bite the bullit" and take the heads off. What I found was that the insides of the cam covers were completely covered with mayonnaise. I have never seen anything like it before. Both head gaskets seemed to be OK so the only conclusion that I have reached is that there must be an internal crack somewhere. Where and how this could have occurred is a complete mystery but it is looking terminal. I have to say that I had forgotten how painful this job is and for this to happen to an engine that has only covered about 63,000 miles and been meticulously maintained is really quite shocking. Simon was right that it wasn't HGF but it looks like it is much worse. Martin

28th April 2020, 20:07	#48
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,753 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	What's the oil like? Did you drain it out? TC

29th April 2020, 17:50	#50
Mr Toad Avid contributor Rover 75 V8 tourer & MG ZTT & MG RV8 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 138 Thanks: 41 Thanked 24 Times in 14 Posts	The mayonnaise is confined to under the cam covers. I have not fully drained the oil but I can see it is black no doubt coolant mixing with the oil. I have been giving this a lot of thought and I have decided to have the cylinder heads pressure tested and then see what happens. I think it less likely that the block has cracked but you never know! I will keep you posted. Martin