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Old 25th June 2017, 23:23   #1
bikerdude666
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Default A few (probably silly) questions

Hi all, we've been looking at getting a caravan recently, and today went out to view some. We went out to look at an Elddis firestorm 500, 2003, weighing 1300kg's, for £5295, but it had obviously been well used, and it left us wondering what work would need doing to it soon, aside form the money we could see it would need instantly. So we carried on looking around, and found 1 we all really liked (including the kids), it's a Vanlander 556, 2010, for £10,895. Really nice, clean, looks almost unused, pretty sure it had a motor mover thing fitted, triple bunk beds, 2 dining areas, comes with a brand new porch type awning, as well as gas bottle, battery, water and waste bottles, hook up cables and a step.

Now my concern with this is, it's MIRO is 1332kg's, and the MTPLM is 1545kg's.

Now a silly question, from what I can see, the towing weight of the ZT is 1600kg's, is this figure affected by weight in the car ie. number of passengers, amount of luggage?

2nd is am I able to tow it? From what I can see, a B license allows me to tow a caravan, as long as the weight is not greater than the tow vehicle, and as long as the combination of car and caravan is no more than 3500kg's. Now I've had a look, and the ZT CDTi apparently weighs 1535kg's. So with regards to the license, would it be 1535 + the MIRO (1332kg's), and in which case would be legal. Or would it be 1535 + MTPLM (1545kg's) and so, annoyingly, by 10kg's, be illegal?

I'm sure I had other questions, so may add to this later.

Thanks.

Just been re-reading it on the .gov site, and I can't actually see anywhere where it says that the trailer has to weigh less than the towing vehicle, but I was sure that was what I'd read previously? Does anyone know?

Last edited by bikerdude666; 25th June 2017 at 23:54.. Reason: Added more
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Old 26th June 2017, 07:01   #2
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The weight of the trailer cannot exceed the weight of the towing vehicle, and the gross train weight, i.e. Towing vehicle and trailer, must not exceed 3500kg, if you don't have B+E licence.So with this caravan you are going to be to very close, and likely over the limit.
TBH, I wouldn't recommend going for this unless you are considering getting a car with bigger towing capacity. By the time you get the family and luggage in the car and van, you could be driving unsafe. Are you experienced at towing?
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Old 26th June 2017, 08:46   #3
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Those caravan's sound awfully expensive to me for their ages Seems you might be looking at dealers, try private sales if you are confident.

I paid £2000 for my Bailey, a 2004 five years ago, when the book price was then was £7000. It is top of the range, but was an insurance write off - there was some o/s damage to the skin. An easy repair, if not too bothered about cosmetics. Inside was absolutely immaculate/ as new. I spent around £300 on repairs, since when it has served us for three holidays a year without any issues. We are away in it now.

If you are DIY useful, there are specialists around the country, selling insurance write off caravans, some needing only minor work to put them back to use. Some only have cosmetic damage, like hail stone dents on the roof.
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Old 26th June 2017, 09:43   #4
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Originally Posted by RPWC View Post
The weight of the trailer cannot exceed the weight of the towing vehicle, and the gross train weight, i.e. Towing vehicle and trailer, must not exceed 3500kg, if you don't have B+E licence.So with this caravan you are going to be to very close, and likely over the limit.
TBH, I wouldn't recommend going for this unless you are considering getting a car with bigger towing capacity. By the time you get the family and luggage in the car and van, you could be driving unsafe. Are you experienced at towing?
Thanks, I thought I'd read the trailer had to weigh less than the car, but it doesn't mention that on the .gov site. So it'll be down to which figure they use then. It's not an ideal starter van I know, but the only 1's we like that are big enough are similar weight.

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Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT View Post
Those caravan's sound awfully expensive to me for their ages Seems you might be looking at dealers, try private sales if you are confident.

I paid £2000 for my Bailey, a 2004 five years ago, when the book price was then was £7000. It is top of the range, but was an insurance write off - there was some o/s damage to the skin. An easy repair, if not too bothered about cosmetics. Inside was absolutely immaculate/ as new. I spent around £300 on repairs, since when it has served us for three holidays a year without any issues. We are away in it now.

If you are DIY useful, there are specialists around the country, selling insurance write off caravans, some needing only minor work to put them back to use. Some only have cosmetic damage, like hail stone dents on the roof.
Thanks, it is pricey, but it is from a dealer and so comes with a warranty and some peace of mind. The doing work on it is what put us off the other 1, so not really interested in an insurance write off, I'd rather pay extra for 1 that's all ready to use. Thanks.
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Old 26th June 2017, 10:20   #5
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Originally Posted by bikerdude666 View Post
Thanks, it is pricey, but it is from a dealer and so comes with a warranty and some peace of mind. The doing work on it is what put us off the other 1, so not really interested in an insurance write off, I'd rather pay extra for 1 that's all ready to use. Thanks.
My experience of the only time I bought from a dealer, was that the warranty was worse than worthless. When buying, I was told it had been thoroughly checked for damp, fully serviced and valeted. In fact the entire front end was completely rotten, the service was one of torquing up the wheel studs and the valet a quick wipe over with a wet rag inside. Electrics were dangerous, gas system dangerous and it was unfit to tow despite looking OK.

I hadn't checked it over, I relied on the their warranty and suggestion that there was no damp and paid up on the spot, much more than I paid for this one. I took it back and they didn't want anything to do with it, or a refund. T&S just said SH caravans can expect to have faults. Then they eventually agreed to take a look and had me tow it all the way to Hull, where I was just ignored by staff for hours. It ended with me putting a not in the window and leaving it completely blocking their access drive and locking it up there. Our holiday was in tatters.

Then they rang and agreed to talk, they agreed to repair the rotten front end. I had enough and despite the rot being widespread agreed to just that repair.

I had thought I was safe buying from a well known and large dealership with a warranty, but never, ever would I buy from a dealer again.
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Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing.

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Old 27th June 2017, 23:16   #6
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Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT View Post
My experience of the only time I bought from a dealer, was that the warranty was worse than worthless. When buying, I was told it had been thoroughly checked for damp, fully serviced and valeted. In fact the entire front end was completely rotten, the service was one of torquing up the wheel studs and the valet a quick wipe over with a wet rag inside. Electrics were dangerous, gas system dangerous and it was unfit to tow despite looking OK.

I hadn't checked it over, I relied on the their warranty and suggestion that there was no damp and paid up on the spot, much more than I paid for this one. I took it back and they didn't want anything to do with it, or a refund. T&S just said SH caravans can expect to have faults. Then they eventually agreed to take a look and had me tow it all the way to Hull, where I was just ignored by staff for hours. It ended with me putting a not in the window and leaving it completely blocking their access drive and locking it up there. Our holiday was in tatters.

Then they rang and agreed to talk, they agreed to repair the rotten front end. I had enough and despite the rot being widespread agreed to just that repair.

I had thought I was safe buying from a well known and large dealership with a warranty, but never, ever would I buy from a dealer again.
Obviously there's always the chance, but hopefully all will be well, her parents have used this place for years, and bought at least 4 caravans from there, and whenever theres been a problem they've apparently dealt with it quickly and without hassle.



I have thought of the other questions I was going to ask...

1: Towing mirrors, apparently they're not a legal requirement, but I quite like being able to see behind me, so are there a certain type/make that fit on the bullet style mirrors best?

2: I bought a 2nd hand (but brand new never fitted and still in its original packing) tow bar last month. The wiring that it's come with has a 7 pin socket, but on the caravan the plug has (I think) 14 pins, might've miscounted. Can this be sorted using some sort of adapter, or will I need to get a new socket and have that wired in to the car?

Picking up a caravan in 2 weeks so need to get this tow bar fitted ASAP now. Nothing quite like popping out on a Sunday afternoon for a casual browse, and then buying something you'd barely thought about before...


Ps. We ended up getting the van from the original post (advert still live here at the moment) As after talking about it Sunday night, and having a look on various websites, we found all the caravans that were big enough (5-6 berth) were all much the same weight, we weren't happy trusting our judgement with a private sale, and so stuck with traders. There were a couple slightly cheaper for what in the photos looked much the same, but much further away, so might've got there and found it to not be as good as hoped, and had a wasted 180 mile journey (problem with autotrader, seems to do distances as the crow flies, so it's great when you see an advert for something 50 miles away, then get directions and it turns out to be 90 miles!). And whilst we may be unlucky, but the dealer we're buying from does seem good, with good recommendations from many people we've spoken to, including the inlaws, grandparents, sister in law, and a few people at work.

As for dealing with the weight, the ZT is staying, that's my car, and I have no intention of selling it and getting something else. Plan for the moment is to take both cars on holidays, mine at the tow car, so minimal weight in the van, just me in the car. She'll take the kids in her Qashqai, and load the boot and roof box with all the luggage. Yes it'll cost more in fuel, and some sites charge for extra cars, but that's about the only way forward for us at the moment. Finding a car that's big enough for all of us + luggage, and has a towing capacity sufficiently better, that my wife would be willing to get rid of her Qashqai for, is unlikely. I wouldn't mind a Freelander (provided the ride in the newer 1's is better, Father-in-law had an '04 Freelander, and it used to make me sea sick on anything but a perfectly smooth road). But we both only hold a B license, so only able to tow up to a combined 3500kg's (incidentally, my wife phoned the DVLA and asked about the licenses, and according to who she spoke to, the tow vehicle doesn't have to weigh more than the caravan, as long as it's not something silly like a smart car, though I still don't quite believe it.)

In a few years I may look at doing the test for the extra weight, but only once I've been able to have a bit of a practise towing, and ideally if money allows, I'd pick up a cheap Freelander or similar and use that for holidays...

So, picking it up in 2 weeks, got storage sorted already, just, phoned Monday morning and they had 1 space left, went down and put a deposit on the caravan, went to the storage place Monday afternoon and the space had gone, luckily while there, someone phoned ot say they didn't want their space anymore so we had that. £300 for the 1st year, £275 after that, CaSSOA Gold Award site, 24hr monitored cctv, big perimeter fence and razor wire. Now need to sort out insurance for it, and buy all the stuff to go with it, got plates and pans and things today but still a few things we'll need.

Last edited by bikerdude666; 27th June 2017 at 23:52.. Reason: Forgot to add...
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Old 28th June 2017, 00:01   #7
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Unless the towing vehicle is wider than the trailer/caravan then there is a legal requirement to have towing mirrors, so worth getting yourself a set.

The old wiring plugs are 7n +7s (7 pins in each plug), the new type is one plug with 13 pins there are plenty of adaptors available at most car shops or caravan accessory shops that will convert the old 7 pin plugs to the new 13 pin plug.
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caravan-Towi...%257Ciid%253A2
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Old 28th June 2017, 00:29   #8
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Unless the towing vehicle is wider than the trailer/caravan then there is a legal requirement to have towing mirrors, so worth getting yourself a set.

The old wiring plugs are 7n +7s (7 pins in each plug), the new type is one plug with 13 pins there are plenty of adaptors available at most car shops or caravan accessory shops that will convert the old 7 pin plugs to the new 13 pin plug.
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caravan-Towi...%257Ciid%253A2
I'd assumed that they were a legal requirement, it was only cos my father-in-law said is wasn't and that they've never used them, I was always planning on getting some, just need to try and find some that will fit the bullet style mirrors.

And thanks for the link, the wiring supplied with the towbar was only a single 7 pin socket, I'm guessing I'd need twin electrics for that adapter, so rather than buy another 7 pin socket, if possible, I may as well get a 13 pin socket instead and have that wired in.
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Old 28th June 2017, 09:23   #9
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I'd assumed that they were a legal requirement, it was only cos my father-in-law said is wasn't and that they've never used them, I was always planning on getting some, just need to try and find some that will fit the bullet style mirrors.

And thanks for the link, the wiring supplied with the towbar was only a single 7 pin socket, I'm guessing I'd need twin electrics for that adapter, so rather than buy another 7 pin socket, if possible, I may as well get a 13 pin socket instead and have that wired in.
It is a legal requirement, but I hate driving with them. I bought a standard pair and made them fit the 75, using an hot air gun to bend the plastic brackets around the 75's mirror cases. I carry them in the boot, but never fit them. I find I can see enough with the 75's mirrors and if stopped, I was just about to pull over to fit them, had to remove them to get through a narrow opening

I find that just a slight turn of the steering, gives me full vision down the side of the caravan and as I progress round bends, I can take the opportunity to have a good look behind, plus look straight through the van itself via the interior mirror and its windows.

To do the 13 pin properly, you will need the proper 13 core cable coming out of the boot to the socket. In addition you will need an heavy duty +ve supply from the front of the car and a split charge relay. These extra supplies (battery charge, fridge etc.) were on the 12S socket (S=supplementary). Your original 7pin with basic road lights, is the 12N (N=normal).
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Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing.

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Old 28th June 2017, 17:30   #10
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You need the specific ones for the marque, all others will flap and wobble as they're designed for square or rectangular mirrors. These ones will fit, as they are adjustable in the way the rubber is tightened. Not ideal, but will get you away You could ask in the items wanted see if anyone has some.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-75-C...0AAOSwK6RZHtie Any of the ones with plastic arms on eBay will be ok, as long as they have the adjustable rubber straps, don't get the ones with the metal bar, as they will not have a secure hold on the mirror of the car.
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