Jatco automatic gearbox - quick question

[rover54]

If you only drained 3 litres in total, your gearbox oil level must be low. As you state 2 litres has come out of the level plug, I can only assume that there must be a fault with the level tube and oil is getting into the level tube at a lower level, hence being drained when you remove the level plug.

Personal I would be worried for the gearbox if it has been running for sometime with low oil, the metalic look to the oil is not a good sign, coupled with smelly oil suggests the oil may of overheated. The churning of the oil through the torque converter develops a lot of heat which need to be dissipated through the oil bulk and heat exchanger, low oil level will compromise the systems ability to keep the oil within an acceptable temperature range.

[wuzerk]

There is obviously something odd going on here. The filler tube is in front of the battery and should have a rubber bung in it. You need a funnel with a narrow spout to refill the box. If you drain all you can from the box it should amount to just over 4 litres. Once you have put this amount of new fluid in you can just ride round the block and then follow the correct procedure to check the level.i.e car level, engine running, move lever through all gears slowly and then leave in neutral. Undo 5mm Allen key level plug and allow any excess to drain, if you put 4 litres in then there should be very little to comeout. Replace plug,. job done. In my opinion you can forget about trying to reach a certain temperature before checking the level, I think that was introduced to give work to the official agents.
EDIT: Having re read your post Just drain what you can, refill with 4 1/2 litres because your quoted 3 litres is not enough and complete the level check procedure.

[rover54]

Originally Posted by wuzerk

There is obviously something odd going on here. The filler tube is in front of the battery and should have a rubber bung in it. You need a funnel with a narrow spout to refill the box. If you drain all you can from the box it should amount to just over 4 litres. Once you have put this amount of new fluid in you can just ride round the block and then follow the correct procedure to check the level.i.e car level, engine running, move lever through all gears slowly and then leave in neutral. Undo 5mm Allen key level plug and allow any excess to drain, if you put 4 litres in then there should be very little to comeout. Replace plug,. job done. In my opinion you can forget about trying to reach a certain temperature before checking the level, I think that was introduced to give work to the official agents.

Oils tend to expand when they get hot, so if the gearbox was hot presumably even more oil will come out of the level plug. I agree with you something odd is going on here.

[sworks]

You only get a fraction of the actuall fill amount drained out. I recently carried out a change on a 1.8 turbo where the level plug was removed and it brought the threads with it This had to be retapped and was too shallow with the level tube in so it had to be removed to be able to cut sufficient threads. Luckily I had 'caught' what was drained out. The same amount was put back in, road tested then done again with no problems. The next car was a V6 and I used the same container to drain into and slightly more was removed, the bottle marked and same amount refilled. The Third car was my own and a diesel, again same container used and slightly more again but I refilled with what came out. If you get the car home and when the car is level drain the oil out, I can if you wish email the amount I removed as a guide?

[simon8805]

Originally Posted by simon8805

justhaving a cup of tea and I am on it, I will let you know the outcome!

Thanks all

Simon

Second time I have written this, the first version is out there somewhere....

So following on from the 2 liters from the level plug I cracked open the drainage plug and out came 1 liter.

A total of 3 liters. (which seems to be 1.5 liters short of the average)

I put three liters back in, took her for a short sharp drive, reopened the drainage plug and out came 3 liters.

So I put three liters in again.

Went out for a drive and within 3 miles had lost all drive in all gears except reverse.

I managed to crawl to a local garage who will set up a diagnostic check monday morning.

I realise that this is my own doing, I have a number of simple questions.

Why 2 liters out of the level plug (5 mm allen key)

and only 1 from the drain plug (24 mm hex)

How do you know accuratly what is actually in the gearbox if you are a new owner

why only 3 liters in total when others quote 4 to 4.5

Do you think I am light on oil hence the gearbox fail.

I will not sleep well tonite, my Rover is a fantastic car, I have had it 4500 miles and totally love it, bad news on monday sees it on the scrap heap which is s shocking waste of a great car.

Reality is though that I will not pay 1000 pounds out on a 10 year old car worth 1500 tops

I am properly kicking myself

[wuzerk]

Originally Posted by simon8805

Second time I have written this, the first version is out there somewhere....


How do you know accuratly what is actually in the gearbox if you are a new owner

why only 3 liters in total when others quote 4 to 4.5

Do you think I am light on oil hence the gearbox fail.

The only way to find out what is in the box is to do a level check via the 5mm Allen key plug. This should leave the box with approx 8 litres of fluid.
If you then drain the box via the large hexagon drain plug you should get around 4 litres out. If you then replace this amount with fresh fluid and then perform the level check again after a short run the box should be fine.
An internal failure of the level checking oilways has never been reported before and is extremely doubtful. I am assuming that you did not undo anything on the SIDES of the box? Unless you have had a leak at sometime you should never see 3 litres drain out, that is too little.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by wuzerk

If you then replace this amount with fresh fluid and then perform the level check again after a short run the box should be fine.

I agree with Wuzerk. Low fluid level alone doesn't usually result in damage. It simply prevents the engagement of some gears. At this stage it would be sensible to concentrate upon getting the quantity of fluid correct as you can't identify any faults until you do.

Simon.

[sworks]

^ I have never seen 4 lts drained . With the car level and 35-45 degrees gearbox oil temp remove the level plug, if no oil comes out top up until it does and when it stops it has enough in. If removed and oil comes out it is overfilled so wait till it stops.

[simon8805]

Originally Posted by crofts

Yes. Let us know what you get out of the drain plug.
The look and smell of your fluid is not a good sign so your box, I am sure, will benefit from the change & you are probably lucky the box has not given problems.
You are probably advised to do a double change in view of the old fluid condition (you will see many members have done this on the basis you can only change some 60% each time, usually 4.5 litres, or so, per change)
May seem expensive but nothing compared to a recon box !

I got 1 liter of ATF out of the drain plug!!

Following the change I have lost drive so now waiting for diagnostic check tomorrow.

Do you think I should open the level plug and let any surpluss flow no matter what comes out?

For me the level plug seems very low on the gearbox, IT IS the 5mm allen key plug located next to the gear selector cable.

There is a 14 mm hex bolt slightly higher up the gearbox, more forward in its location but defo still on the bottom, whats that for.

Sorry no manual and in Germany, so I am kindof fighting blind.

I have lost/limited drive so I am guessing I have screwed up somewhere, my wife told me we had slip going on the day before hence the forced ATF change.

Its not an instant fail but after 3 or 4 miles the slipped and fail to engage starts.

Pressing the sports mode button, kills all drive forward and reverse.

OH dear, I think I am in trouble.

Originally Posted by ceedy

Am I not grasping the maths here ?.. usually I'm ok ..

But 2 + 1 litres out =3

replaced 3 = 3 total

After drive took out 3 replaced 3 = total 3 replaced ?

up to 6 now ?

I'll go and lie down

two from level plug one from drain put three in

drove it

three from drain plug three back in

total 6 out and 6 in

now no drive

your maths is good its me that needs a lie down

Originally Posted by rover54

If you only drained 3 litres in total, your gearbox oil level must be low. As you state 2 litres has come out of the level plug, I can only assume that there must be a fault with the level tube and oil is getting into the level tube at a lower level, hence being drained when you remove the level plug.

Personal I would be worried for the gearbox if it has been running for sometime with low oil, the metalic look to the oil is not a good sign, coupled with smelly oil suggests the oil may of overheated. The churning of the oil through the torque converter develops a lot of heat which need to be dissipated through the oil bulk and heat exchanger, low oil level will compromise the systems ability to keep the oil within an acceptable temperature range.

With the car now not running as drive has been lost, assuming there is an issue with level plug HOW to I take this forward, this morning I walked to the garage armed with my 5 mm allen key and guess what out started to flow ATF at one liter I put back in the plug.

Me thinks me screwed

Originally Posted by wuzerk

There is obviously something odd going on here. The filler tube is in front of the battery and should have a rubber bung in it. You need a funnel with a narrow spout to refill the box. If you drain all you can from the box it should amount to just over 4 litres. Once you have put this amount of new fluid in you can just ride round the block and then follow the correct procedure to check the level.i.e car level, engine running, move lever through all gears slowly and then leave in neutral. Undo 5mm Allen key level plug and allow any excess to drain, if you put 4 litres in then there should be very little to comeout. Replace plug,. job done. In my opinion you can forget about trying to reach a certain temperature before checking the level, I think that was introduced to give work to the official agents.
EDIT: Having re read your post Just drain what you can, refill with 4 1/2 litres because your quoted 3 litres is not enough and complete the level check procedure.

I am happy enough that I have the refill pung, indeed it required a long tube to get there.

IF I assume my level plug is faulty in some way, your comment is valid, I decided to check level again this morning, and more ATF started to flow, I let it flow for 1 Liter then thought I was just letting brand new ATF go down the drain (so to speak)

If I follow your lead I will now have to add 2.5 liters (initial 1.5 liter short and the 1 liter that came out this morning)

at 15 quid a liter I have already invested over 100 quid in ATF, oh happy days

Originally Posted by Singvogel

Beats me why 2 litres came out the level check tube - the only logical conclusion is that someone over-filled it. As it's a tube from inside the box there will always be a 50ml or so to run out - but 2 litres ?????

If it was dark coloured and smelling of 'toast' then it's definitely overdue for a change - possibly it wasn't changed at the 60K service as it should have been, and someone just chucked in a couple of litres instead.

The total ATF in the box is 8 litres but you can only get a little over half out.

I refilled with 4.6 litres to get the first dribble coming out the level tube.

Be sure to get the correct ATF.

It's Texaco N402 which is readily available at LandRover dealers as Part No. STC 50531 and is labelled ATF402 at £11.64 plus VAT a litre.

Hope that helps.

Singvogel.

There seems to be thought pattern that 4.5 liters is the normal amount of ATF that we should expect to see in total, do you concur that this indicates my gearbox is 1.5 liters light (assuming the level plug tube is faulty as suggested)

PS ich bin auch ein autobahn leibling

[rover54]

The only thing I can think of is that somehow oil is draining back from the torque converter into the gearbox and increasing the oil level, hence you can drain out anothor litre of oil, this could account for no drive as the torque converter is not full of oil. Maybe the gearbox oil pump is defective and instead of pumping oil into the torque converter when the engine is running, the torque converter is pumping the oil out of itself back to the gearbox.

If when you first filled the box no oil came out of the filler plug, then extra oil can only come from the torque converter, about 3.5 litres.

I base this on simple logic, if the box is not being filled externally, the any extra oil must be coming from some internal source, i.e the torque converter, as it is the part of the system that has that much oil.