EU vote?

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Stevie25

I may be in the minority on this particular subject BUT, having considered all the arguments I will be voting REMAIN.
My fear is if we vote leave, then when the pound drops, prices rise, we may need an emergency budget, tax rises, downward adjustments to state pensions etc.
Then, people who voted leave will be the first to complain loudest- "oh, but I was just voting on the immigration issues, I didn't think all this would happen"
The EU is not perfect - far from it - but the greater risk is leaving.
It seems to me that the Leave campaign is full of people who are well off enough not to be affected no matter what the result is - but I have worked hard all my life and don't want to put st risk my occupational pension, my upcoming travel pass, and my State pension- which I have to wait until 66, but hopefully no longer.
Just a possible outcome could mean having to give up running my R75 as a second car - say car insurance tax is increased, diesel prices increase, car duty tax increases, service and general maintenance prices increase, all due to the economy taking a downturn and the Government decide on an emergency budget to raise revenue.
All all this is just my thoughts - we all have a free, but important vote in a few weeks.

I have friends in this thread who are voting to leave and friends who are into Nigel Farage. They know who they are and despite our political preferences, we remain friends I have friends who will vote for the remain side, but choose not to write about it here, preferring to cast their vote on 23 June.

You might think you are in the minority, I believe you are not, I read the bookies are saying, that the lead the 'exits' had on Friday, is now coming back and narrowing down in favour of the 'remains'. So please do not feel intimidated by the Farage camp.

I had to laugh at the bookie odds of Nigel Farage making PM 2017.... 40/1

Tony Blair.... 200/1

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Gate Keeper

I had to laugh at the bookie odds of Nigel Farage making PM 2017.... 40/1

Tony Blair.... 200/1

Hmmm - I was laughing at the odd of Leicester winning the Premier League - 5000/1

I am surprised Phoney Cares odds are that good to be honest........

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Hmmm - I was laughing at the odd of Leicester winning the Premier League - 5000/1

I am surprised Phoney Cares odds are that good to be honest........

Fair comment

Have fun

[KWIL]

If you get really desparate to fighten the voters, tell them their pensions are at risk!!

Oh dear Cameron has just done it, now I know the Remain camp is afraid of the dark.

[bobthebuilder]

DD

A) No one is suggesting the EU is the only trading show in town!! However it is hugely significant.

B) At least you've had a go looking at the different trading options post Brexit. I find it incredible that the Leave campaign don't have a clear strategy mapped out for this. It's all very well saying they want to 'take control' but they can't keep expecting people to trust them that things will be just fine, they have a duty to explain what the new world order would look like.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

DD

A) No one is suggesting the EU is the only trading show in town!! However it is hugely significant.

B) At least you've had a go looking at the different trading options post Brexit. I find it incredible that the Leave campaign don't have a clear strategy mapped out for this. It's all very well saying they want to 'take control' but they can't keep expecting people to trust them that things will be just fine, they have a duty to explain what the new world order would look like.

And I actually find the naivety of the Remain Camp demanding of the Brexit camp exactly what the situation will be after an Out Vote bizarre - as is your statement that Brexit "has a duty" to be able to see into the future.

It is like asking what BoE base rate will be in a years time - in 5 Years time - or a decade from now.........

There are options in front of us - not all of them are entirely predictable.

I am not scared of what the UK may or may not do if we leave the EU - I actually have faith in the UK and think that on balance we would be better off without being shackled to "ever closer political and fiscal union"

No - I am more scared of what the EU could develop into and what it may commit us to - financially and politically - if we remain in the EU.

In an earlier post Dyson was criticised for changing his mind about the Euro because he supported it back in 2001 - 15 years ago!!!!


Well i also thought the Euro was a good idea back then - (my ZT-T was two years away from being built ) - but fifteen years of seeing a political elite push what was a Trading Block of countries into what it is today has made me reconsider.


I do not think it a good idea that our influence back in 1977 was 1:6 - now it is 1:27 with a large number of those 27 being countries receiving huge EU payments whilst we in the UK are one of the biggest contributors.

I do not like what the EU has done and is doing to Greece. It was/is undemocratic bullying and has caused such division and ill feeling within the EU that EU scepticism is at its highest ever.

Yes we get access of a Free Trade zone - but that zone is declining, in financial dire straights such that many of its members are financially moribund.

I mean no offence - but no one predicted just how bad the EU was going to become when we voted into the EEC. Not many of us (there were some) realised that what the EU was doing was atrocious political machinations that made the single currency it wanted so much, unstable and virtually unworkable. I think it naive to suggest that the Brexit Campaign must have all the answers when Remaining in the EU is just a problematic if not more so.

If you want the Brexit side to tell you exactly what will happen after Brexit - then by the same token - perhaps you could tell me exactly how the EU is going to solve the Euro problem and reduce youth unemployment in Europe from the ridiculous highs that they are at now?

Because if the EU does not get a handle on these issue - our referendum could end up being pointless as the EU is likely to implode all on its own.

I also said earlier - that it will not take a lot of elections in key EU member states to suddenly see a remarkable shift to extremism within the EU.

There are more serious and real "scare stories" for the EU and its member states to contend with than the pension one Cameron has just tripped over.

I don't see the Remain camp coming forward and telling us all how the EU is going to get better and solve all of its many problems and issues. No they just keep attacking people like Boris personally and failing to get a reaction from people with their rather silly scare tactics.

[bobthebuilder]

DD, I'm not asking the Leave camp to predict the BoE Base Rate in ten years time, I'm asking what their position would be in a few weeks time when exit negotiations could begin. If you are potentially ripping up all the trade deals with the EU and 50 odd RoW nations, I absolutely do think you should have an alternative in mind.

And how many times have we read on this thread that we are not going to worry about those economists who say a Leave vote will damage us financially because they were wrong about the ERM etc? Dyson wanted to us to join the Euro, shouldn't we also discount his opinion on the same grounds?

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

DD, I'm not asking the Leave camp to predict the BoE Base Rate in ten years time, I'm asking what their position would be in a few weeks time when exit negotiations could begin. If you are potentially ripping up all the trade deals with the EU and 50 odd RoW nations, I absolutely do think you should have an alternative in mind.

And how many times have we read on this thread that we are not going to worry about those economists who say a Leave vote will damage us financially because they were wrong about the ERM etc? Dyson wanted to us to join the Euro, shouldn't we also discount his opinion on the same grounds?

Hi, back when Dyson said the Euro was OK to join, it was because it was being rolled out and propped up, much like it is now. The Euro now is in Robert Maxwell land, it's being shifted around to prop up country after country and, one of the reasons the EU is terrified of the UK leaving. The money that the UK hands over Weakly ( not a spelling mistake) is dipped into for the failures of the Euro project, it will collapse if we vote leave. The Euro has never been a single currency, it just looks like one, each country in the Euro has a national symbol on the back of the Euro coins and notes.
In the old days when you went on Holiday, you got an exchange rate based on the country you were going to. If it's now part of the Eurozone you get one exchange rate, that buys less or more in the zone for your Pound, is it any wonder that the countries are failing, you can't have a one size fits all currency with one value, it's one of the reasons why Greece is on its knees. Greece gets the same Eurozone value, but needs to spend more of them to buy goods from other EU countries that are doing better than they are, so with the problems of migration hitting Greece and the Balkans, they are spending the bailout cash on fishing migrants out of the Seas. The Euro is doomed and the EU also, borders are being put back and people want to claim back their identity. The UK is the first throw of the dice, if we Vote remain it will still collapse and we'll be out by it not existing. The UK is not full of little Englanders, it has bright people with a brighter future outside the little club they call the EU, they need us more than we need them and the scaremongering is just that. It's nonsense being spouted by those on the gravy train of handouts and fraud. The EU books have never been audited, one day soon they will be and, there's a lot of people going to be jailed over the missing money.

[topman]

Thing is the downfall of the euro has been proclaimed since before it even came into being. People said it wouldn't even last one year, then two years, then three years etc. Then it was all supposed to collapse at the start of the spanish crises, then the greek crises. Yet it's still here. I think people dislike it, which is fair enough. It's a point of view. However that doesn't mean it's likely to disappear. Wanting something to happen and thinking it will happen are two different things entirely.

Just my point of view

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by KWIL

If you get really desparate to fighten the voters, tell them their pensions are at risk!!

Oh dear Cameron has just done it, now I know the Remain camp is afraid of the dark.

It's somewhat alarming if you rely for your income on only the State Pension, as so many actually do. They tend to be very elderly and insecure with little grasp of the modern ruthless world, having been brought up in a gentler age.

Very few of them have even heard of the 'triple lock' which applies to pensions and has been won over many years as a guarantee of at least some measure against inflation. Cameron knows full well he daren't mess with that, all those pensioners of course have raised families. There's more votes to lose than he thinks.

In that single episode he has amply demonstrated his unsuitability for the job he is supposed to be doing. The fact that the members of his team are still campaigning after hearing him say that speaks volumes. And just how the Remainders can stomach this beats me. Revulsion.