Scottish independence.

[damienp]

Originally Posted by FLYER

Passing by the Sir William Wallace monument near Stirling yesterday it made me think how proud he would have been that Scots could make their own destiny by putting a cross in a box.

The queen has already said 'keep me out of it'
In other words, Longshanks has already done the deal and there'll be no change for scotland.

[whitevanman]

Stone quarries & brickworks on double shifts then? Seems quiet ironic that Scotland has quite a high Italian immigrant population, perhaps they can move to Cumbria and man the wall

Agree with the previous post though, last thing we need as a union is a marginal either way tbh, Make it a landslide for or against at least then it'll be dead and buried..

[Anthony & Maricel]

It was the money from the treasury that paid for the development of the oil fields. I feel very sorry for the ship builders in Portsmouth who have lost their jobs, it should never of happened until we knew how the referendum went.

But we are where we are with that one, and things will change in the event of a yes vote. As we do not build capital warships in foreign nations, so shipbuilding would have to be brought back south to be inside the UK borders. Salmond just hasn't thought that through properly, and the same goes for the storage of our nuclear deterrent. Thousands of jobs will be lost in Scotland with the closure of the submarine base and the reversal of building warships in Scotland.

When I was up in Hartlepool at the end of May, we (as in me and the wife) were sitting next to a group of Scots at breakfast. And they started up a very pleasant and interesting conversation with us, they broached the subject of independance with me. I gave my opinion and they agreed with me that Salmond is living in la la land, if he thinks he can dictate to us what he can have or wants in the event of a yes vote.

They also revealed to me, and this is their exact words. That his selfish ambition, ego and desire to be the first president of an independent scotland, is getting in the way of putting Scots and Scotland first. They also said that the splitting of the union would cause mass job losses, and companies would relocate on mass south of the border.

These were Scottish businessman, and obviously saw through him. They also said that the Scots who will lose their jobs, will not be able to relocate to the remainder of the UK because they are no longer EU or British citizens. And they said we would have to put up border controls between the UK and Scotland, until they rejoin the EU. That one made me chuckle, but at the end of the day they were being realists and pointing out some things that Salmond has kept to himself or wants to acknowledge.

This article below, gives a very good insight into what Scotland's share of the UK debt would be. And it is eye watering, and a big pill for Scots on both sides of the campaign to swallow. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...t-debt-deficit

[doopydug]

So why are the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all fighting to save the union - what do they not know, that you do?

[ukmastiff]

I get totally fed up with the politicians mainly trying to make it all about economics , its exactly the same with the in or out of Europe debate. Its not about economics its about wanting your own culture and rule or accepting a joint one. You either feel at one with your English fellows or you don't.

Lets just be bloomin honest a lot of Scotts ( no not necessarily the majority ! ) don't want to be part of the same nation as the English ( yes you Mr Salmond are the loudest one), that's up to them and I'm sure many English feel the same way. I wish those at the top would stop banging on about which would be a better financial result for who. Independence is about just that, 'Independence' and self determination not money.

I dont feel French or German ( though I probably am in part) and wish to leave the E.U but I still like them and would be happy befriending them , I just don't want a joint parliament with them ( oh silly me we have one already). Scotts dont 'necessarily' want independence because they want to be financially better off do they , not the ones I know anyway.

I have Scottish friends as I do friends from many places and they are all happy with my view that if the Scottish people want independence stop trying to convince then otherwise and just let them have it simple. ( we don't know what the nation wants yet I know). Just to be clear , I'm genuinely happy to be part of a joint nation with the Scotts personally BUT only if they want it.

The worst bodge for me is what we will get if there is a NO and that is a continuing devolution, I fear that is what we will likely get.

Ah now that feels better.

Mas

[Roverite]

[QUOTE=Astraeus;Today I have put up with these ' three stooges' as so well put saying stuff like the following
' by St Andrew's day we will...
By Burns night we will...
Do they honestly think that sort of sound bite - at this late stage will help?
Can you not see the incredible harm that has been done by these muppets.
I no longer want to be governed by any of them. At least our own muppets will be looking out for us. Putting us first not just all of a sudden -when it dawns on them they might just lose.[/QUOTE]

Perfect observation, and they flew the Scottish flag over No10 as well, how infantile and condescending.

This was a perfect opportunity to resolve the 'Scottish' question once and for all. Both sides had plenty of time to put their offers on the table and it should have been left to the Scots to decide, in a free vote and without any influence from the other parts of the UK, in fact I think canvassing should have stopped at the closing time of the 'Postal Votes', so that the people could mull over and debate it among themselves. But no, Westminster gets in panic mode, because it didn't set out a strong enough case, and starts offering sweeteners for a No vote.

Well, as an Englishman I think this is unfair on the rest of the UK. Who gave them the right, especially the 'out of office' Brown, to offer these bribes, together with a timetable for implementation. I was quite happy for the Scots to have their vote, but I object to additional give aways that we were never asked about. I am sure that, if the vote is No, the rest of us will be asking who is paying and what do we get out of it?
People outside Greater London are fed up with being short changed by all recent Governments.

If nothing else, it highlights why so many people have given up on politics. Every few years we vote on their manifestos, but much of it never happens, whilst a lot of things that were never mentioned are pushed through, often against public opinion. If we do get a change of government, they spend £billions undoing the current structure, only for the next lot to spend £billions doing exactly the same; £billions spent, but nothing changes.

Another rant over; sorry.

Roverite.

[ukmastiff]

Well, as an Englishman I think this is unfair on the rest of the UK. Who gave them the right, especially the 'out of office' Brown, to offer these bribes, together with a timetable for implementation. I was quite happy for the Scots to have their vote, but I object to additional give aways that we were never asked about. I am sure that, if the vote is No, the rest of us will be asking who is paying and what do we get out of it.
People outside Greater London are fed up with being short changed by all recent Governments.

Plus one from me and TBH I cant say i disagree with what either of the last two posters are thinking. In fact that's half the point isnt it , a lot of us be we English , Scottish or even one of the other hundred or so 'ethnic groups' that make up the U.K dont wan tthe government we have OR a dodgy new one.

Personally I dont like racists be they White , English , Scottish or Orange / Black. FFS its the 21st Century stop worrying over who our ancestors were and treat each other properly is always my view. I dont care id your Scottish or Irish i only care if you'll burgle my house or buy me a pint

[Anthony & Maricel]

Originally Posted by doopydug

So why are the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all fighting to save the union - what do they not know, that you do?

This is one of the reasons why, it will call into question the validity of next years General Election if labour get it in. Because they stand to lose 41 seats in the house of commons in 2016. That is a total of 59 seats, that will no longer be occupied at westminster. (look at the bottom of my post to see where the total of 59 comes from)

That is a saving to the UK tax payer, as we will be no longer be funding their outrageous salaries and perks. Also the current government, does not want to be labeled the government that saw the breakup of the union. At the end of the day they are doing their jobs, by defending the union and preventing the break up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ves-union.html

Labour will lose 41 seats in the house of commons, lib dems will lose 11 conservatives only have one seat north of the border. The SNP occupies 6 seats at westminster. =59

[doopydug]

Same thing happened to Rosyth in Thatchers days - Devonport got the nuclear sub refit contract despite the fact they had to spend £400m on berths that already existed on the Rosyth dockyard (installed especially). The Rosyth contract was cheaper too and better for the taxpayer but it went to Devonport and Rosyth shut down with the loss of many jobs. Luckily it was taken on by Babcock Thorn who seem to have made it a worthy facility

[doopydug]

Originally Posted by Anthony & Maricel

This is one of the reasons why, it will call into question the validity of next years General Election if labour get it in. Because they stand to lose 41 seats in the house of commons in 2016. That is a total of 59 seats, that will no longer be occupied at westminster. (look at the bottom of my post to see where the total of 59 comes from)

That is a saving to the UK tax payer, as we will be no longer be funding their outrageous salaries and perks. Also the current government, does not want to be labeled the government that saw the breakup of the union. At the end of the day they are doing their jobs, by defending the union and preventing the break up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ves-union.html

Labour will lose 41 seats in the house of commons, lib dems will lose 11 conservatives only have one seat north of the border. The SNP occupies 6 seats at westminster. =59

Keeping Scotland in the union is not better for Cameron - it is the main reason why a Labour government gets into power. Cameron will ensure Tories are in power for a generation of Scotland, and its labour voters, leave the union.