EU vote?

[clf]

Originally Posted by chipsceola

Cat among the pigeons?

The Govt. pledged long ago to consider in parliament any on-line petition with 100,000+ votes - currently there is one on-line demanding a new referendum that requires a 75%+ turn out and a minimum 60% vote for or against staying/leaving the EU - today at 21:00hrs they already had 130,000 signatories, will be ported in press Saturday.

PS Don't shoot me only the messenger, not voted or advocating support for or against this measure.

Not shooting the messenger

I think this would be wrong, should a motion passed, that allowed the result to be overturned. We live in a democratic society and by the very nature of that, the leave was democratically decided upon, by a majority, albeit a small one, but a majority nonetheless. The Scottish independence referendum was a close run thing too, should it have been redone?

I am in the remain camp incidentally, however as it was democratically voted for directly by the people involved, and not some politician biased by his/her own desires, I respect that result. I am willing to find out what will happen, and will accept it regardless. (and I do hope my fears and opinions are proven incorrect)

If as a country we did go back to the polls and vote all over again, the UK will become a laughing stock, not to mention at risk of being invaded by the US looking for WMDs, subsequently have the govt. overthrown and a democratic one installed.

[genpk]

Originally Posted by Polly

Without straying too far off topic, but by worthwhile job, I mean one that gives some satisfaction to the incumbent, perhaps has a decent renumeration package, but then again the job satisfaction is far more important.
Yes, it's easy to be coy, and it avoids having to tackle the argument head on, you know perfectly well I was not advocating a return to the Middle Ages, but you know what.... Some mothers would give their right hand to be able to stay at home and look after their children. unfortunately the world we now live does not value mothers, and indeed women have brain washed into thinking they they go to work so that their children can have a better life. Well I can assure you you are wrong, the one thing a child appreciates above all else is rushing home from school to tell mummy the day's news. Something many mothers never experience. But that aside, do you think it's either sensible or desirable that a mother puts her child into nursery, perhaps paid for by the state, so that she can then go to work as shop assistant earning minimum wage?
You think it's un-progressive for a mother to stay at home and look after her children, but I will bet you are fully in favour of parental rights, and will fight tooth and nail to protect them. You see there we have it again, we all know our RIGHTS, but no mention of RESPONSIBILITIES.
Of course when I have said mother, it could equally be father, although I do think a mothers bond may be stronger than a fathers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Your right, funny how things change, over here ,most mothers able to stay at home and look after their children are considered very lucky now and alot of those having to work envy them as some just cant afford to live on one wage.
The issue really is.with child care costs here taking 2/3rds of a weekly wage,some people are working a week for $100 AUD after paying child care costs.
No matter what anyone says there is not substitute to having a parent at home if possible.All just depends on peoples priorities in life I guess.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Originally Posted by genpk

Your right, funny how things change, over here ,most mothers able to stay at home and look after their children are considered very lucky now and alot of those having to work envy them as some just cant afford to live on one wage.
The issue really is.with child care costs here taking 2/3rds of a weekly wage,some people are working a week for $100 AUD after paying child care costs.
No matter what anyone says there is not substitute to having a parent at home if possible.All just depends on peoples priorities in life I guess.

Some very interesting and informative posts on this subject; it may not necessarily be down to priorities in life; it may be down to necessity; eg: a parent working as a manager at BHS will now need to take alternative arrangements RE: childcare; for example; working two jobs to get anywhere near the same wage.

One may take this principle and apply it to those affected by the closure of steel plants around the UK...

Or any job- a large number have been lost in all professions!

This is the biggest challenge ALL politicians have now; the fact is that most are out of touch with; and do not truly reflect and represent the communities they are elected to serve.

Very few have been at the so called "Grass Roots" level...

The referendum shows that "The grass roots" are extremely dissatisfied with the way they are being treated and are not about to be pushed around and threatened!

I'd have thought that would obviousl when looking back through our history!

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by maxi_crawf

I think you will find that the French have already said that they will still honour the bilateral agreement.

When did the government agree to that? Interested as the major of Calais is kicking up a fuss. This was commented upon before, but with us no longer in the EU, manning the border may no longer seem appealing to the French. One reason reducing immigration when out of the EU will not prove as simple as claimed.

As regards another referendum, there won't be another one to directly challenge this one. However, I can easily see there being one to approve, or otherwise, the deal Borris and Co broker with the EU to allow us access to the common market. The Tory party will hate it as it will look remarkably like EU membership, but with no voting rights.

[Dragrad]

Calais, is an agreement between France and GB.. Not an EU issue.

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by Dragrad

Calais, is an agreement between France and GB.. Not an EU issue.

Agreed (the Le Touquet Treaty?). But with the UK out of the EU, Calais is now the end of the EU immigration 'pipe' and I can't see them liking it. The French could include this issue in the two year 'divorce' negotiations that are triggered once Article 50 is invoked.

[clf]

This Facebook video I think should be openly watchable to all. I have seen this couple before on other videos, this is not a wind up. I wonder how many other people were so ill informed to vote one way or another?

Please note The video does contain bad language

[Darcydog]

It certainly does make you wonder Clf

But are we really saying that this is the trouble with democracy and that some people should not vote.......

I do not think it is democracy that is the problem - it is lack of education certainly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cecliv5BTNo

There are plenty of examples of individuals making fools of themselves - witness the 80mph clips that abound on the net.

But I really do despair at the accusations by some that the "oldies" swayed the vote and they should not have done because they will be dead soon.

And of course the young did not bother to vote in a lot of cases and so handed "victory" to Brexit.

The truth is that the vast majority voted as they did after a great deal of thought and analysis.

Originally Posted by Gate Keeper

I suspect that a few of the oldies who voted out will be dead by the time the long term benefits are realised.

Amazing inference - did it it take you long to work out that we all get older every day?

I notice the FTSE 100 closed at 6138 yesterday - just c. 3% down.

Far better than I thought.

The FTSE 250 was down 7% tho' - more in line with predictions and the greater inherent volatility of the 250.

But overall - considering the incredible order of magnitude of our vote! - I have previously seen far greater one day volatility - so the predicted immediate market meltdown (mainly by the BBC I might add) never happened.

It is early days tho - I do not expect the markets over the next few months will have a smooth ride.

Edit...........

Of far more interest is the effect on the European markets

The French CAC closed around 8 percent lower on the day. Germany's DAX index fell as much as 10 percent before closing around 6.8 percent down. Italy's FTSE MIB and Spain's IBEX both closed more than 12 percent lower.

Quite what sentiment the markets are showing is too early to say - but if this continues it would indicate that the already wounded EU is felt to be the bigger loser than the UK.

[stevenicks]

Originally Posted by Polly

Don't you think there might be a possibility that your daughter might actually end up with a proper worthwhile job, and maybe even be able to buy her own house?
You see we oldies can remember a time when a house could be bought for roughly a years wage. We can also remember when a woman could stay at home and look after her own children, and as a result, never complained about the lack of childcare. We can remember when those in work paid for a pension for the older generation, their parents and grandparents, because we respected the sacrifices they had made to enable us to grow up during a period that the only choices you had were to work or starve. We can also remember when holidays consisted of one day at Christmas, and maybe a week during the summer, when if you were lucky, you could spend a few days by the seaside. We can also remember when we were told that having large families (more than two) was horrendously bad, but that new technology was going to make life so much easier. We would have much more leisure time, and would even be able to retire early in order to leave jobs for the young.
And do you know what.... We actually enjoyed life, and we enjoyed being there caring for our elders and our children.
The bit I can't remember, is being told that the next generation would be a selfish lot that would begrudge their elders even the very air that the breath, in order that they could have three foreign holidays every year


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Very well put Sir

[Gman2]

Originally Posted by Dragrad

Calais, is an agreement between France and GB.. Not an EU issue.

You're right but I'm afraid to say it's a typical stance of stick your hand in the sand and hope for the best. I flagged this up weeks ago and was met with the same self assured responses that it was a separate issue. Even I'm shocked how quickly this is now on the agenda only 8 hours after the leave announcement was made! Trust me - this is now up for grabs and I don't think we're in the driving seat with the negotiations that will follow and if I was on the French side I'd have exactly the same position. I hope it doesn't change but if it does then what an extraordinary own goal scored by the UK right at the start and I'd love to see the new government square this off with the UK particularly the good people of Kent!