help with water pump removal

pugcrew · 13th November 2018, 12:28

I'm in the middle of replacing my water pump and have got to the stage where I am removing the four torx bolts that hold the water pump in place.

After some difficulty I have removed the top two but now struggling with the bottom ones.

Any advice or tips on how to do this would be appreciated. Access is very difficult.

ratchet · 13th November 2018, 14:30

Raise or lower the engine to improve access. 3 or so years since I did mine, so it's all a bit hazy I'm afraid - but there's a very good how to on the forum

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...ght=thermostat

pugcrew · 13th November 2018, 17:56

Thanks for that Rachet. I have been following that thread that Jules posted which has been very useful but at it relates to thermostat replacement it doesn't cover the actual pump removal.

Since posting my original message I have now managed to remove the other bolts and got the pump off. That's all I could do today so tomorrow I will need to put the new pump on so I would still appreciate any advice on getting the bolts back in. There is just so little room to get any tools in there. I can't get a normal ratchet in there and have used a very small ratchet but even this is obstructed by the pulley for some bolts. What have others used? Also do people find it better with the engine raised or in its normal position?

Also, I had to remove the thermostat off the pump to get it out (down and back). I would prefer to put the thermostat and pump back in one. I have read on another forum that someone said this can be done without raising the engine. I've tried and it doesn't seem to go in. It seems to be the metal pipe that connects to the thermostat housing that is stopping it going in. Have others managed to do this and how??

Any tips and advice will be welcome!!

Cantray · 13th November 2018, 23:20

Good luck! what were they thinking of? lots of patience and cups of tea. I found it essential to be able to raise and lower the engine as per the thread. and then the serpentine belt.

mh007 · 14th November 2018, 09:04

I always tend to support the car on axle stands & have a trolley jack on the engine (a suitable pad or piece of wood on the jack to protect the sump of course) because an engine support just gets in the way.

It really is a case of up & down with the trolley jack to gain access.

If you have the engine supported in one place without the ability to move it, you'll struggle

pugcrew · 14th November 2018, 17:01

Well with a lot of effort and following the various tips that people have kindly posted here I managed to get everything back.

However, after refilling with coolent and starting up I found that there was a bad leak!

It looks like it is coming from the back of the water pump. I made sure that the gasket was properly seated so the only thing I can think is that I did not tighten the bolts up enough.

Due to the limitations of space I could only use a very small ratchet about 75mm long so couldn't get them very tight. That said I used the same ratchet to undo the bolts which I was surprised to find wasn't particularly tight so I was happy that I'd got them tight enough. But maybe not.

Mike Noc · 15th November 2018, 10:00

Did you remove all the old gasket before fitting the new one?

The bolts shouldn't need to be that tight to get a good seal. As space is limited you may have picked up a bit of dirt on the sealing face of the pump when putting it in place - you can't see it due to the lack of access, and it is easy to brush it against something on the way in.

Check the bolts aren't loose, and if they are OK, best thing is to whip it off again and check the sealing surfaces are clean and undamaged, and that the gasket is correctly positioned. If the bolts aren't loose, and you try and tighten them further, there is a risk that you could make matters worse.

Each to their own though.

pugcrew · 18th November 2018, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

Did you remove all the old gasket before fitting the new one?

The bolts shouldn't need to be that tight to get a good seal. As space is limited you may have picked up a bit of dirt on the sealing face of the pump when putting it in place - you can't see it due to the lack of access, and it is easy to brush it against something on the way in.

Check the bolts aren't loose, and if they are OK, best thing is to whip it off again and check the sealing surfaces are clean and undamaged, and that the gasket is correctly positioned. If the bolts aren't loose, and you try and tighten them further, there is a risk that you could make matters worse.

Each to their own though.

Mike, thanks for the further advice which I followed and ended up taking the pump off again. As you say it is difficult to see what is going on down there and when I had a good look I noticed a bit of pitting on the mating surface of the block. I also had a good look at the old pump and noticed some traces of sealant so I suspect that there was a similar problem in the past.

Unfortunately the new gasket had become stuck onto the block and I damaged it trying to carefully remove it. Anyway I got another gasket and used some gasket sealant this time and I don't seem to have any more leaks.

However, I have found that the engine doesn't seem to be reaching a good temperature with the new pump fitted. I have done a number of journeys monitoring the temperature on the IPK display. Even on motorways at high speed or in traffic it only ever reaches around 80 and tends to vary between this and 75. The gauge is around 9 o'clock which I thought was normal but have read that this means the temperature could be as low as 75.

I fitted a new thermostat when I fitted the pump so hopefully that is ok although I suppose you can never be sure. About 18 months ago I fitted a new thermostat and monitored temperature at the time. The car was then reaching just above 90 and then dropping just below and staying around this temperature which I understand is roughly where is should be. When I was fitting the new pump I did think about reusing the thermostat but thought I'd be better off using the brand new one.

Is there any easy way to confirm that the thermostat is operating as it should? I don't want to have to remove it to test.

Or could there be another reason for the low running temperature? Is it possible that the old pump was not so efficient at pushing the coolant through the engine and now the new pump is keeping the temperature down? The old pump wasn't completely gone, it had just become a bit noisy so was probably working quite well.

Another thought I had is that if the gauge and the IPK readout use the same sensor could they both be wrong and in fact my engine is running at the correct temperature.

I'd welcome any thoughts!

Just a reminder but my car is a CDTi.

Mike Noc · 18th November 2018, 22:28

These are cool running engines, and if you checked it 18 months ago then that would have been in warmer weather than we are currently experiencing, and that might account for the slight drop in coolant temperature now.

Yes both the gauge and the IPK coolant temperature display use the same sensor.

13th November 2018, 12:28	#1
pugcrew Avid contributor none Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Seaford Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	help with water pump removal I'm in the middle of replacing my water pump and have got to the stage where I am removing the four torx bolts that hold the water pump in place. After some difficulty I have removed the top two but now struggling with the bottom ones. Any advice or tips on how to do this would be appreciated. Access is very difficult.

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13th November 2018, 14:30	#2
ratchet Posted a thing or two ZT-T + CTDI Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Gone walkabout Posts: 1,185 Thanks: 179 Thanked 361 Times in 289 Posts	Raise or lower the engine to improve access. 3 or so years since I did mine, so it's all a bit hazy I'm afraid - but there's a very good how to on the forum https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...ght=thermostat

13th November 2018, 17:56	#3
pugcrew Avid contributor none Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Seaford Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks for that Rachet. I have been following that thread that Jules posted which has been very useful but at it relates to thermostat replacement it doesn't cover the actual pump removal. Since posting my original message I have now managed to remove the other bolts and got the pump off. That's all I could do today so tomorrow I will need to put the new pump on so I would still appreciate any advice on getting the bolts back in. There is just so little room to get any tools in there. I can't get a normal ratchet in there and have used a very small ratchet but even this is obstructed by the pulley for some bolts. What have others used? Also do people find it better with the engine raised or in its normal position? Also, I had to remove the thermostat off the pump to get it out (down and back). I would prefer to put the thermostat and pump back in one. I have read on another forum that someone said this can be done without raising the engine. I've tried and it doesn't seem to go in. It seems to be the metal pipe that connects to the thermostat housing that is stopping it going in. Have others managed to do this and how?? Any tips and advice will be welcome!!

13th November 2018, 23:20	#4
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Good luck! what were they thinking of? lots of patience and cups of tea. I found it essential to be able to raise and lower the engine as per the thread. and then the serpentine belt.

14th November 2018, 09:04	#5
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	I always tend to support the car on axle stands & have a trolley jack on the engine (a suitable pad or piece of wood on the jack to protect the sump of course) because an engine support just gets in the way. It really is a case of up & down with the trolley jack to gain access. If you have the engine supported in one place without the ability to move it, you'll struggle

14th November 2018, 17:01	#6
pugcrew Avid contributor none Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Seaford Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Well with a lot of effort and following the various tips that people have kindly posted here I managed to get everything back. However, after refilling with coolent and starting up I found that there was a bad leak! It looks like it is coming from the back of the water pump. I made sure that the gasket was properly seated so the only thing I can think is that I did not tighten the bolts up enough. Due to the limitations of space I could only use a very small ratchet about 75mm long so couldn't get them very tight. That said I used the same ratchet to undo the bolts which I was surprised to find wasn't particularly tight so I was happy that I'd got them tight enough. But maybe not.

15th November 2018, 10:00	#7
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,547 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Did you remove all the old gasket before fitting the new one? The bolts shouldn't need to be that tight to get a good seal. As space is limited you may have picked up a bit of dirt on the sealing face of the pump when putting it in place - you can't see it due to the lack of access, and it is easy to brush it against something on the way in. Check the bolts aren't loose, and if they are OK, best thing is to whip it off again and check the sealing surfaces are clean and undamaged, and that the gasket is correctly positioned. If the bolts aren't loose, and you try and tighten them further, there is a risk that you could make matters worse. Each to their own though.

18th November 2018, 22:28	#9
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,547 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	These are cool running engines, and if you checked it 18 months ago then that would have been in warmer weather than we are currently experiencing, and that might account for the slight drop in coolant temperature now. Yes both the gauge and the IPK coolant temperature display use the same sensor.