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Old 10th November 2018, 15:40   #1
tazoparts
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Default 2.5 KV6 Locking Pin Won't Fit at "Safe" position

I'm doing a cambelt on a 2.5. The engine is out of a car as it's going into mine.

I've sold some bits before but never done the belt myself.

I've just done the main belt and all torqued up. I've used the wrong tool for the pulleys as didn't realise there was a difference between the 2.0 positioning and the 2.5.

I'm having trouble with the locking pin. It doesn't go in when the triangle notches line up at the bottom? I have to turn the engine a bit anti clockwise for the pin to go in. I presume this then means the engine is being set slightly out?

I'll be going at it again tomorrow and will use the correct 2.5 profile tools but just wondered if the locking pin problem is common?

The engine turns over fine now and has good compression, but seems wise to sort these issues before the engine goes back in the car.

Taz
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Old 10th November 2018, 20:46   #2
SD1too
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I'll be going at it again tomorrow and will use the correct 2.5 profile tools but just wondered if the locking pin problem is common?
Yes it is Taz; don't worry about it.

You will have to rotate the engine very slightly to get the flywheel locking pin to engage, and the engine will then be exactly the right position to locate the service tool on the rear timing belt sprockets. Don't attempt to fit the front tools at the same time.

Simon
(I renewed my cambelts earlier this year)
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Old 11th November 2018, 10:05   #3
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I'm having trouble with the locking pin. It doesn't go in when the triangle notches line up at the bottom? Taz
Without any timing tools fitted. First you need to engage to turn the engine until the SAFE mark is aligned on the main timing cover front alloy mounting housing and crank pulley, then wiggle the crank back and forth to engage the timing pin. (Note the timing pin holes are different for auto or manual models)

At the same time the rear cam sprockets should be pointing inwards to one another approx 3 and 9 o’clock. If not turn the crank another turn to the SAFE mark again and recheck the rear cams. You will probably find some misalignment on the rears but don’t worry as this can occur over the miles of use.

If you mean the triangle at the bottom of the oil pump housing then you need to IGNORE this mark. It is not relevant. Photo attached showing typical alignment that can be found, although I have seen them bang on too. I think the casting marks are perhaps an overspill from earlier engine version, so rather than recast the oil pump housing they just fit it, however for the unaware it does cause a little confusion initially.
https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...8&d=1504372893

Second photo shows what should be lined up and confirms that the mark on the oil pump housing is irrelevant for timing purposes.
https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...1&d=1504429575

Lastly once you have it all set up manually turn the engine over at least two revolutions and recheck the timing marks again. At this point I find that the rear sprockets can often need a fine tune, and this can be rectified by slackening the front sprockets with timing tools fitted and turning the cam with the timing tool until you get the perfect alignment of the rear sprockets.
Turn engine over by hand 2 turns and recheck timing marks at rear again and they should be bang on hopefully this time.

Lastly don’t forget to fit the cam caps before fitting the engine in the bay as the front cap is a little so and so to fit with engine in place

Last edited by Lovel; 11th November 2018 at 10:18..
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Old 11th November 2018, 14:20   #4
SD1too
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At this point I find that the rear sprockets can often need a fine tune, and this can be rectified by slackening the front sprockets with timing tools fitted and turning the cam with the timing tool until you get the perfect alignment of the rear sprockets.
I don't quite follow your description Gary.
Which camshaft; the exhaust? How can you turn that when the front tool is in place locking it to the inlet camshaft?

Simon
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Old 11th November 2018, 18:49   #5
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I don't quite follow your description Gary.
Which camshaft; the exhaust? How can you turn that when the front tool is in place locking it to the inlet camshaft?

Simon
With the front tools fitted and cam shaft sprocket set pins slackened off a touch you can rotate the timing tool on the flats of the hex part of the tool to align the rear cam wheels to give a truly 3-9 o’clock reading.

In the old Rover KV6 video you will see the gentleman carry this out, but he uses a socket on the end of the factory tools.
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Old 11th November 2018, 19:11   #6
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Without any timing tools fitted. First you need to engage to turn the engine until the SAFE mark is aligned on the main timing cover front alloy mounting housing and crank pulley, then wiggle the crank back and forth to engage the timing pin. (Note the timing pin holes are different for auto or manual models)

At the same time the rear cam sprockets should be pointing inwards to one another approx 3 and 9 o’clock. If not turn the crank another turn to the SAFE mark again and recheck the rear cams. You will probably find some misalignment on the rears but don’t worry as this can occur over the miles of use.

If you mean the triangle at the bottom of the oil pump housing then you need to IGNORE this mark. It is not relevant. Photo attached showing typical alignment that can be found, although I have seen them bang on too. I think the casting marks are perhaps an overspill from earlier engine version, so rather than recast the oil pump housing they just fit it, however for the unaware it does cause a little confusion initially.
https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...8&d=1504372893

Second photo shows what should be lined up and confirms that the mark on the oil pump housing is irrelevant for timing purposes.
https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...1&d=1504429575

Lastly once you have it all set up manually turn the engine over at least two revolutions and recheck the timing marks again. At this point I find that the rear sprockets can often need a fine tune, and this can be rectified by slackening the front sprockets with timing tools fitted and turning the cam with the timing tool until you get the perfect alignment of the rear sprockets.
Turn engine over by hand 2 turns and recheck timing marks at rear again and they should be bang on hopefully this time.

Lastly don’t forget to fit the cam caps before fitting the engine in the bay as the front cap is a little so and so to fit with engine in place
Thanks for your reply. When you talk about adjusting the secondary belts, you mean putting the tool in place on the primary side, undoing the bolt going into the primary side camshaft, and turning using the part of the tool going into the other camshaft?

I have got the Haynes manual now but it isn't as good as I expected.

Another thing, I took the cover off before adjusting the engine. So the timing mark used on the originals is likely different to that on the later engines?

I am changing both of the damping pulleys on the secondary side, so I will need to set the timing there anyway.
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Old 11th November 2018, 19:42   #7
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With the front tools fitted and cam shaft sprocket set pins ...
Set pins? What are they? Don't you mean bolts?
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... slackened off a touch you can rotate the timing tool on the flats of the hex part of the tool to align the rear cam wheels to give a truly 3-9 o’clock reading.
So you're moving both exhaust and inlet camshafts. You're therefore changing the timing from the factory position. Also, when the inlet sprocket is loosened doesn't it move to its end stop courtesy of the powerful hydraulic tensioner?

I don't like the sound of this Gary. Why mess about with something that works perfectly well?

Simon
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Old 11th November 2018, 20:50   #8
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Set pins? What are they? Don't you mean bolts?

So you're moving both exhaust and inlet camshafts. You're therefore changing the timing from the factory position. Also, when the inlet sprocket is loosened doesn't it move to its end stop courtesy of the powerful hydraulic tensioner?

I don't like the sound of this Gary. Why mess about with something that works perfectly well?

Simon
Set pin - threaded full length
Bolt - part thread with a shank

I’m timing exactly as per factory requirements. If you Review the old Rover KV6 timing belt video and look for the subtle tweak with the socket and wrench extension.
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Old 11th November 2018, 21:06   #9
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Set pin - threaded full length
Bolt - part thread with a shank

I’m timing exactly as per factory requirements. If you Review the old Rover KV6 timing belt video and look for the subtle tweak with the socket and wrench extension.
I would have described it as a set screw, but I certainly knew exactly what you meant Gary.

Simon may wish to search the meaning of both fasteners, but they are not as he describes, bolts

Brian
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Old 11th November 2018, 23:17   #10
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I would have described it as a set screw, but I certainly knew exactly what you meant Gary.

Simon may wish to search the meaning of both fasteners, but they are not as he describes, bolts

Brian
Aye set screw sorry I agree
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