Mr. Bates v Post Office

[Arctic]

It seems if you believe the news that it's still happening now, so Horizons broken why keep using it, the powers that be will drag this out has long as possible hoping some will give up.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by Arctic

It seems if you believe the news that it's still happening now, so Horizons broken why keep using it, the powers that be will drag this out has long as possible hoping some will give up.

Post Office (or any big entity) do not have the means or timescale to jump to another system quickly. Because of this the PO have issued two contracts to Fujitsu to keep this "legacy" system afloat until a new system is in place which, by the way, is scheduled to be "cloud" based. Why that is good or noteworthy I do not know as it just means some third party company provides 'on the day' service from the servers in some desert and/or in an ex-nuclear bunker to an operating system and database which could be virtual on the day as a cloud but must still be saved to physical servers.

Fujitsu could be the cloud provider as it just means another layer between physical server farms and the end user. A question of money and subterfuge.

Kev

[macafee2]

https://www.change.org/p/biztradegov...te&utm_term=cs

macafee2

[WillyHeckaslike]

The actions of the Post Office are quite rightly being questioned but another elephant in the room seems to be getting off quite lightly if not escaping completely. What about the characters who presided over this under the guise of being members of the legal gang? Where was the scrutiny and the question on their part? I do not know if courts are subjected to random and incognito quality inspections but I would expect that they are more so than any other establishment.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

The actions of the Post Office are quite rightly being questioned but another elephant in the room seems to be getting off quite lightly if not escaping completely. What about the characters who presided over this under the guise of being members of the legal gang? Where was the scrutiny and the question on their part? I do not know if courts are subjected to random and incognito quality inspections but I would expect that they are more so than any other establishment.

Post #4 is highlighting the issue that the legal profession do not have the knowledge to try these sort of cases. As a judge I would not have accepted the assertion that the system was "robust". Just think Microsoft as an example and that is a far bigger entity than Fujitsu.

As for the accountants not raising concerns I do have some sympathy there as they had to take the PO's word for figures in the loss adjustment account. i.e. if the PO posts, say, 700k as a loss due to fraud then the accountant will check the fraud posted amounts and total them up and check that the correct figure is posted in the accounts. They cannot check that the figures are true, only Fujitsu can but the PO investigators should have spotted the discrepancies but preferred to protect the system.

Little people trying to be big, earn mega bucks but having to jettison any morals to achieve that. The people need to take the decision makers to court to obtain compensation. They will soon change tack when their house and pension pot is at risk of being used for compensation purposes.
Kev

[macafee2]

If the prosecution lawyers or POST office staff were aware that a 3rd party could update post office Horizon information but kept it a secret, should the lawyers be disbarred and the staff prosecuted for perverting the course of justice?

macafee2

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by macafee2

If the prosecution lawyers or POST office staff were aware that a 3rd party could update post office Horizon information but kept it a secret, should the lawyers be disbarred and the staff prosecuted for perverting the course of justice?

macafee2

If they "knew" about the reality I would totally agree. But these waters are so muddy it makes the Ganges delta clear by comparison. They will have been, let's say, economical with the truth with every party involved and thus to many went to sleep with a clear conscious. I guess many of us would take that course of action after any questions we made were smoothed over.
Kev

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

The actions of the Post Office are quite rightly being questioned but another elephant in the room seems to be getting off quite lightly if not escaping completely. What about the characters who presided over this under the guise of being members of the legal gang? Where was the scrutiny and the question on their part? I do not know if courts are subjected to random and incognito quality inspections but I would expect that they are more so than any other establishment.

Yeah, Willy I've been panning the legal profession for not being up to IT speed. However, not all are in that basket.

Apparently an eminent KC, Sir Jonathan Swift, compiled a report in 2016 with regard to the software and the treatment of sub-postmaster's. Such was the contents of that report that the Chairman of the PO, Tim Parker, quietly archived it and never allowed members of the PO Board to see/read it.

Again, I've panned the board for not being aware or ignoring issues but with this sort of action of information being withheld it gives them a get out of gaol ticket! No doubt Tim Parker will be in the Lords.

Information taken from the Sunday Telegraph business section dated 31 March 2024.
Kev

[KWIL]

Seems we have another Post Office/Royal Mail "Problem" some new stamps are being said to be fake and customers have been called upon to pay £5 for delivery.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by KWIL

Seems we have another Post Office/Royal Mail "Problem" some new stamps are being said to be fake and customers have been called upon to pay £5 for delivery.

Would not surprise me. The criminal fraternity even stooped so low as to counterfeit ONE pound coins. A stamp is near to that now so it might be targeted but I would suspect RM/PO scanners can't cope (software bugs)?
Kev