Airbag light - T4 diag in Bath/Bristol area?

[BigJacko]

Hi all,

I have the dreaded airbag light, and less than a month left before my MOT is due. I've been going nuts trying to pin it down to a specific underseat connector but haven't been able to do so.

I occasionally (one time in ten) seem to get an extinguished SRS light, but more often than not, it stays on. Even the times it is extinguished, I'm not concious of having 'done something' to make it so. It seems purely random (but probably isn't).

My wife and I both use the car, so the driver's seat gets moved a lot, as does the steering wheel - the passenger seat gets moved almost as much too, though. I've WD40ed and opened+closed all four connectors (yellow airbag connectors and blue seat-belt pretensioners) repeatedly. I haven't yet done the 'cable clip around the body, end-to-end' trick yet though (that's next).

The interior of the car has never been wet, so I don't suspect the side-impact sensors.

I can't see any problems inside the steering wheel, but I haven't stripped down the shrouds completely yet.

I've not looked at the rear-seats (we have two child-seats installed which rely on the seat-belts) - presumably there are no airbags there, but are there any sealt-belt pretensioners in the rear that I should check? If so, how?

The annoying bit is that I'm being sensible and waiting 10 minutes after each test (ignition off, key out) before wiggling or disconnecting the under-seat connectors again... and this is making the process of trial-and-error take ages.

I can't help thinking it would be better to get a diagnostic box on there, and see whether it will tell me exactly what connector (or other thing) is the cause. I have an ODB-2 reader working on my laptop, but it shows no MIL faults at the moment, so evidently, it probably can't read the airbag-ECU through the normal ODB-2 bus (can anyone confirm?)

So, I'm left with a hunt for a T4 or something similar that I can employ someone to use to read me the codes. My nearest ex-Rover garage is Hartwells, Bath, (two minutes away) but I'm reticent to use them, given the poor feedback they have on Google, and comments I've heard locally. Does anyone have any other recommendations for trustworthy T4 (or equivalent) operators in this area?

And how much should I expect to spend on having someone plug in a reader and tell me "it's the left front pretensioner, guv" and trouser my dosh?

Thanks in advance!

(Car details: 2002 52-plate Rover 75 Tourer Club, 2.0-litre petrol KV6, pre-facelift model)

[rover54]

Its probably the connector under the front seats. A very well known source of airbag light problems. Disconnect and make the connectors a few times, or if that doesn't work remake connector with choco block screw-down connectors.

[BigJacko]

Originally Posted by rover54

Its probably the connector under the front seats. A very well known source of airbag light problems. Disconnect and make the connectors a few times, or if that doesn't work remake connector with choco block screw-down connectors.

Yeah, thanks... I knew that already (and said as much in my post).
I'm actually trying to nail down *which one*, because the process is taking ages to debug, given the 10 minute wait in-between goes.

[GAVIN]

Originally Posted by BigJacko

Hi all,

I have the dreaded airbag light, and less than a month left before my MOT is due. I've been going nuts trying to pin it down to a specific underseat connector but haven't been able to do so.

I occasionally (one time in ten) seem to get an extinguished SRS light, but more often than not, it stays on. Even the times it is extinguished, I'm not concious of having 'done something' to make it so. It seems purely random (but probably isn't).

My wife and I both use the car, so the driver's seat gets moved a lot, as does the steering wheel - the passenger seat gets moved almost as much too, though. I've WD40ed and opened+closed all four connectors (yellow airbag connectors and blue seat-belt pretensioners) repeatedly. I haven't yet done the 'cable clip around the body, end-to-end' trick yet though (that's next).

The interior of the car has never been wet, so I don't suspect the side-impact sensors.

I can't see any problems inside the steering wheel, but I haven't stripped down the shrouds completely yet.

I've not looked at the rear-seats (we have two child-seats installed which rely on the seat-belts) - presumably there are no airbags there, but are there any sealt-belt pretensioners in the rear that I should check? If so, how?

The annoying bit is that I'm being sensible and waiting 10 minutes after each test (ignition off, key out) before wiggling or disconnecting the under-seat connectors again... and this is making the process of trial-and-error take ages.

I can't help thinking it would be better to get a diagnostic box on there, and see whether it will tell me exactly what connector (or other thing) is the cause. I have an ODB-2 reader working on my laptop, but it shows no MIL faults at the moment, so evidently, it probably can't read the airbag-ECU through the normal ODB-2 bus (can anyone confirm?)

So, I'm left with a hunt for a T4 or something similar that I can employ someone to use to read me the codes. My nearest ex-Rover garage is Hartwells, Bath, (two minutes away) but I'm reticent to use them, given the poor feedback they have on Google, and comments I've heard locally. Does anyone have any other recommendations for trustworthy T4 (or equivalent) operators in this area?

And how much should I expect to spend on having someone plug in a reader and tell me "it's the left front pretensioner, guv" and trouser my dosh?

Thanks in advance!

(Car details: 2002 52-plate Rover 75 Tourer Club, 2.0-litre petrol KV6, pre-facelift model)

Firstly double check with your MOT station to find out if its an MOT failure or just an advisory
Secoundly it doesnt need a T4 for the diagnostics.

[suffolk boy]

the problem is the plating on the connectors one side is zinc the other gold. this due to the plating wearing thin sets up electrical resistance enough to put on the light.just change the connectors.i got some decent two way ones from a company called vechile electrical products they crimp on no soldering required although you can if you wish as they come pre tinned.quite easy to install.i got stumped on one due to the wires coming out being the same colour.ie blue turns out this does not matter which side they go to.in the intrest of safety pull the fuse for the system or disconnect you battery first

[BigJacko]

Originally Posted by GAVIN

Firstly double check with your MOT station to find out if its an MOT failure or just an advisory
Secoundly it doesnt need a T4 for the diagnostics.

Thanks Gavin

The law changed this year. Since March 2012, SRS lamps illuminated on the dashboard is an instant fail. For six months prior to that, it was an advisory, but now, it's a fail.

Second, I did say in my first post that I was looking for a 'T4 or equivalent' to read the airbag ECU. I have my own ODB2 reading kit, but it only reads faultcodes from the 'standard' MIL fault code area, not the airbag ECU.

Do you know what other non-T4 rigs will read the airbag ECU and tell me which connector, side-impact sensor, or airbag connection is at fault, please?

[BigJacko]

Originally Posted by suffolk boy

the problem is the plating on the connectors one side is zinc the other gold. this due to the plating wearing thin sets up electrical resistance enough to put on the light.just change the connectors.i got some decent two way ones from a company called vechile electrical products they crimp on no soldering required although you can if you wish as they come pre tinned.quite easy to install.i got stumped on one due to the wires coming out being the same colour.ie blue turns out this does not matter which side they go to.in the intrest of safety pull the fuse for the system or disconnect you battery first

Thanks, Suffolk Boy. I'm aware of what the design-flaw is on the connectors. I've done all the cleaning and reconnection steps advised on this forum in the multitude of other posts (with the exception of physically changing the connectors or soldering the wires together manually). I've followed the steps on the Rover Technical Bulletin which covers this problem. In between goes, I've been pulling out the fuse and waiting 10 mins (as per the bulletin) rather than disconnecting the battery, as this last step is unnecessary (and in any case, you're still supposed to wait 10 mins for the capacitors in the airbag ECU to lose their charge, even if you disconnect the battery).

I don't really want just dive in and chop off all the underseat connectors and replace them all in one go - especially if that isn't the underlying cause in my case. I know it's PROBABLY these underseat connectors, but that doesn't mean it IS one of them - other members here have turned out to have ECU problems, or issues with the steering-wheel connection or side-impact sensors, and they've wasted a lot of time on the underseat connectors unnecessarily.

Having wasted a lot of time myself already, I would rather find out which sub-system is at fault FIRST: the underseat connectors, the steering wheel connection, the side-impact sensors, or the ECU itself. Then I can concentrate on fixing *just* that problem, to get me through the MOT I have to face in a few days.

All I really want/need is access to a rig (whether T4 or something else) in the Bath or Bristol area that would read the airbag ECU fault codes and tell me in an instant what's up. And some idea of how much that's likely to cost.

Thanks in advance

[suffolk boy]

fully understand what you are saying.but the new connectors are less than £2 each plus say i hour to fit them this will at least take that problem out of the senario.unlikely to be be the steering wheel .as you say quite correctly a t4 will pin down the problem but will cost more than £8 for all the connectors and might cure your problem.the only place i think of in your area that might have a t4 is howards mg

[rover54]

Originally Posted by BigJacko

Yeah, thanks... I knew that already (and said as much in my post).
I'm actually trying to nail down *which one*, because the process is taking ages to debug, given the 10 minute wait in-between goes.

Do them both; only got to wait one ten minutes then, and probably 10 minutes to do the job. It is impossible to guess which one it is a fault, you might be luck and guess right first time.

T4 will probably cost you around £50 plus vat, whereas a couple of choco blocks, a quid.

[BigJacko]

Originally Posted by rover54

Do them both; only got to wait one ten minutes then, and probably 10 minutes to do the job. It is impossible to guess which one it is a fault, you might be luck and guess right first time.

T4 will probably cost you around £50 plus vat, whereas a couple of choco blocks, a quid.

Thanks. There are actually FOUR connections; two (blue) for the seat-belt pre-tensioners, and two (yellow) for the airbags, so that's actually double the amount of time - which, if it doesn't work, is even more of a wasted effort.

I've also read that the original connectors have a spring inside them which shorts out the two wires (on the airbag side), so that they are definitely uncharged and untriggerable when they are disconnected. Choc-boxes don't quite offer the same degree of protection, so I am keen (if possible) to only have to mess with the *actual* connector or item that's bust, rather than muck around with them all and risk (at a later date) an airbag firing off because of a dodgy choc-box connection coming loose or shorting against the seat frame.

I'm not looking to save money, specifically. Time is a constraint; safety is another. Obviously I'm not looking to throw money away, but neither am I going to cut corners with airbags if I can help it.

£55 for a diagnostic is steep, but if it'll rule out the offending article and save me having to rip the lot out 'just on the off-chance' then it's actually not so bad. I have emphysema, so struggling around under car seats is actually pretty hard work for me - which is another reason why I just want to find the *actual* source, rather than stab in the dark.

Cheers for the info anyway.