Cables or syncro

Richard1973 · 22nd November 2014, 15:44

For a while now my gear selection has felt a little bit 'crunchy' if I am anything other than slow and deliberate with it.
2nd and 3rd gears seem to be the worse and the symptoms appear to me to be that of worn syncros.
Is the gearbox prone to this issue or could it be my selector cables are starting to be less than ideal?
I am more used to selector rods so not sure what the symptoms would be of poor cables.
Car has done 116K and is provbably due a gearbox oil change if that has any bearing.
Mk2 ZT CDTi

Avulon · 22nd November 2014, 16:28

Hi Richard, My first question would be, what's the clutch like? If it's heavy and the biting point is below a third of the way up then it's likely clutch drag is what is causing problems engaging gears. Mine was like this for a long time before I had a new clutch and slave fitted - in fact so much that I was double de-clutching most of the time. Eventually of course the slave cylinder failed. New clutch and slave (and DMF and master, 'belt and braces') and the gears and synchro's are perfect. (it's just the driver that sometimes messes up the timing and crunches gears now!). By all means get the remote cables checked out first (and the gearbox oil), but at 116k it's nearing time for a new clutch (and slave) anyhow (in 'normal' use). Check out the forum and search for clutch and slave problems - also look up Andy Willi (one or two 'l's I can't remember) as he's the clutch guru here. (use the search feature above

).

Richard1973 · 23rd November 2014, 15:19

Thanks for that. The clutch has already been replaced at some point before I bought the car and the biting point feels fine. I take it syncro issues are not that common? I might change the gearbox oil and see if that helps. I believe it is on the service schedule for 105k miles anyway.

Avulon · 23rd November 2014, 15:30

By all means do change the gear oil, make sure to use the correct fluid. And also get the gearchange cabling checked out. You could try bleeding the clutch as well and see if that helps. I'd do each of those one at a time and see which helps most. You didn't answer my question as to the weight of the clutch (did I ask?). Is it smooth? it shouldn't be stiff, just enough so as you know that your pushing something may 10 - 20 lbs pressure (I'm **** at estimating such things btw).

Has anyone else experience of synchro wear/failure on the manual gearbox on the diesel? Come on guys more input please.

chris75 · 23rd November 2014, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avulon

Has anyone else experience of synchro wear/failure on the manual gearbox on the diesel? Come on guys more input please.

Well I don't know what the cause is , but I am experiencing similar symptoms with a stiff gear-change to the OP . I have no reason to suspect the clutch in any way as it is less than 2 years old and feels fine in operation . It is just that the changes are a bit notchy . I have noticed that the quadrant where the cables connect to the gearbox is a bit loose on the spindle , and might be worn ?

My car is the v6 and has done some 102k miles.

sworks · 23rd November 2014, 17:22

Very rare to have a synchro issue, only heard of 2 since launch.

Richard1973 · 23rd November 2014, 19:48

Sorry Avulon, overlooked that part of your post. The clutch operation feels nice and smooth, is reasonably weighted and the biting point is about mid pedal.
I drove a brand new Focus earlier this year and the clutch pedal was much lighter on that, but I wouldn't say mine is unduly heavy.
It just feels mechanically unsympathetic every time the gear change is a bit 'crunchy' going home. I would say 3rd gear is the worse.

Avulon · 23rd November 2014, 20:57

That is unusual then, Even with the remote cables tightened up, it it's causing the gears to 'crunch' then I don't think the remote cables will be to blame, it does sound more like a synchro problem. I'd get the gearbox fluid changed soon as, and make sure they check what comes out for contamination/metal shavings. See if that improves matters or not.

FROGGY · 23rd November 2014, 21:27

When I had a clutch change on the mortified one, the garage lubricated the gear change cables (sorry, don't know what is involved there), and the difference in the gear change was immense. The box felt as though it belonged on an MG, slick and fast.
Have a look-see if you can do it yourself without too much hassle.

HTH

Mick

22nd November 2014, 15:44	#1
Richard1973 Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon CDTi Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Mansfield Posts: 287 Thanks: 18 Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts	Cables or syncro For a while now my gear selection has felt a little bit 'crunchy' if I am anything other than slow and deliberate with it. 2nd and 3rd gears seem to be the worse and the symptoms appear to me to be that of worn syncros. Is the gearbox prone to this issue or could it be my selector cables are starting to be less than ideal? I am more used to selector rods so not sure what the symptoms would be of poor cables. Car has done 116K and is provbably due a gearbox oil change if that has any bearing. Mk2 ZT CDTi

22nd November 2014, 16:28	#2
Avulon This is my second home 1.8t Tourer Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tanelorn Posts: 4,830 Thanks: 956 Thanked 1,148 Times in 916 Posts	Hi Richard, My first question would be, what's the clutch like? If it's heavy and the biting point is below a third of the way up then it's likely clutch drag is what is causing problems engaging gears. Mine was like this for a long time before I had a new clutch and slave fitted - in fact so much that I was double de-clutching most of the time. Eventually of course the slave cylinder failed. New clutch and slave (and DMF and master, 'belt and braces') and the gears and synchro's are perfect. (it's just the driver that sometimes messes up the timing and crunches gears now!). By all means get the remote cables checked out first (and the gearbox oil), but at 116k it's nearing time for a new clutch (and slave) anyhow (in 'normal' use). Check out the forum and search for clutch and slave problems - also look up Andy Willi (one or two 'l's I can't remember) as he's the clutch guru here. (use the search feature above ). __________________ Need a T4 ?: T4 Owners Map thanks to Stevestrat ( use at your own risk) Where?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanelorn Mods/Retrofits: PCV vortex 'filter'; bluetooth; inline thermostat; reversing sensors; plenum spyhole ; headlamp washers ; Diy mp3 player replacing CD multichanger; FBH with remote; Headlamp washers; black/chrome front grille, rear blind; Xenon projectors To do: puddle lights; 2 Din cd/nav to fit; boot release button

23rd November 2014, 15:30	#4
Avulon This is my second home 1.8t Tourer Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tanelorn Posts: 4,830 Thanks: 956 Thanked 1,148 Times in 916 Posts	By all means do change the gear oil, make sure to use the correct fluid. And also get the gearchange cabling checked out. You could try bleeding the clutch as well and see if that helps. I'd do each of those one at a time and see which helps most. You didn't answer my question as to the weight of the clutch (did I ask?). Is it smooth? it shouldn't be stiff, just enough so as you know that your pushing something may 10 - 20 lbs pressure (I'm ** at estimating such things btw). Has anyone else experience of synchro wear/failure on the manual gearbox on the diesel? Come on guys more input please. __________________ Need a T4 ?: T4 Owners Map thanks to Stevestrat ( use at your own risk) Where?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanelorn Mods/Retrofits: PCV vortex 'filter'; bluetooth; inline thermostat; reversing sensors; plenum spyhole ; headlamp washers ; Diy mp3 player replacing CD multichanger; FBH with remote; Headlamp washers; black/chrome front grille, rear blind; Xenon projectors To do:** puddle lights; 2 Din cd/nav to fit; boot release button

23rd November 2014, 17:22	#6
sworks Been absent for a while… Rover 75 Tourer, Classic mini Cooper S, Abarth 595 competizione, MG TF and a Hyundai Tucson PHEV Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cumbria Posts: 13,071 Thanks: 1,033 Thanked 1,686 Times in 1,040 Posts	Very rare to have a synchro issue, only heard of 2 since launch. __________________ ................................................. 'Marmite' Possibly one of the most famous 75 tourers produced! left the production line as the last of only Three Rover 75 tourers produced in Trophy Yellow. 48 hours later Longbridge closed. The last sold ordered 75 Tourer. Paid for by the Phoenix Four and handed over by John Towers to the Warwickshire Northampton Air ambulance service as a Rapid Response vehicle

23rd November 2014, 19:48	#7
Richard1973 Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon CDTi Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Mansfield Posts: 287 Thanks: 18 Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts	Sorry Avulon, overlooked that part of your post. The clutch operation feels nice and smooth, is reasonably weighted and the biting point is about mid pedal. I drove a brand new Focus earlier this year and the clutch pedal was much lighter on that, but I wouldn't say mine is unduly heavy. It just feels mechanically unsympathetic every time the gear change is a bit 'crunchy' going home. I would say 3rd gear is the worse. Last edited by Richard1973; 23rd November 2014 at 19:52..

23rd November 2014, 15:19	#3
Richard1973 Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon CDTi Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Mansfield Posts: 287 Thanks: 18 Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts	Thanks for that. The clutch has already been replaced at some point before I bought the car and the biting point feels fine. I take it syncro issues are not that common? I might change the gearbox oil and see if that helps. I believe it is on the service schedule for 105k miles anyway.

23rd November 2014, 20:57	#8
Avulon This is my second home 1.8t Tourer Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tanelorn Posts: 4,830 Thanks: 956 Thanked 1,148 Times in 916 Posts	That is unusual then, Even with the remote cables tightened up, it it's causing the gears to 'crunch' then I don't think the remote cables will be to blame, it does sound more like a synchro problem. I'd get the gearbox fluid changed soon as, and make sure they check what comes out for contamination/metal shavings. See if that improves matters or not. __________________ Need a T4 ?: T4 Owners Map thanks to Stevestrat ( use at your own risk) Where?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanelorn Mods/Retrofits: PCV vortex 'filter'; bluetooth; inline thermostat; reversing sensors; plenum spyhole ; headlamp washers ; Diy mp3 player replacing CD multichanger; FBH with remote; Headlamp washers; black/chrome front grille, rear blind; Xenon projectors To do: puddle lights; 2 Din cd/nav to fit; boot release button

23rd November 2014, 21:27	#9
FROGGY I really should get out more....... MG ZT CDTI Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 17500 REAUX, CHARENTE-MARITIME Posts: 2,749 Thanks: 2 Thanked 133 Times in 90 Posts	When I had a clutch change on the mortified one, the garage lubricated the gear change cables (sorry, don't know what is involved there), and the difference in the gear change was immense. The box felt as though it belonged on an MG, slick and fast. Have a look-see if you can do it yourself without too much hassle. HTH Mick __________________ http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps628d4119.jpg IN THE BLACK NOW