Wishbone Help

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by BillyRover

Tried everything and couldn't crack them

Hi Billy,

They're tightened to 150 Nm, that's why. Lie under the car and use a hexagon socket, universal joint and a handle at least half a metre long (for example a torque wrench obviously set to well over 150 Nm). Heave with all your might and the bolt will eventually loosen very slowly. Once it moves, the rest will be easy as the thread is nice and cosy inside the subframe, protected from rust. You'll succeed tomorrow, I'm sure!

You're right, it is a pig of a job.

Simon

[TourerSteve]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hi Billy,

(For example a torque wrench obviously set to well over 150 Nm).

Simon

A Torque wrench is a calibrated precision instrument and under no circumstances should be used to undo tight bolts by raising the setting ,
If using a socket the correct tool is a strong arm . If using spanners do as Artic shows and connect two spanners by using a 18mm plug or Allen key


Hopefully you have sprayed the bush / bolts with a release spray to soak over night
Follow Artic's pictorial and am sure all will be fine

Rust with age will be holding the bolt but once cracked they usually unthread easily . 150 Nm is about 111 lbs ft and you will find if you tighten a bolt to that setting in a vice it is not actually that hard to tighten ( Incidentally a lot of wheel bolts on modern cars are 150 NM )

[Tourist]

Hi Billy - I feel your pain as I did this job last Wednesday and there were some moments of despair around getting the 18 mm bolts out of the bush housings.

In the end it was easy - but only once I'd gone and bought some new tools and referred to advice on the forum here.

Here's my final post on the matter which may be of help to you, especially when refitting: https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...0&postcount=39

Like others have already said, those bolts are a pig to get to, and then a pig to undo! Arctic's double spanner and Allen key technique worked for the front bolt on my car and getting underneath the car and using a ring spanner that had an angled handle (as most do) enabled me to get the back bolt out. With the handle angled down, you have enough space to get a knuckle bar on the end of the spanner and not foul the exhaust.

I'm replacing the passenger side on Friday so no doubt will be swearing at it again then - hopefully it'll be easier now I have the tools and know the technique.

Good luck with it - you'll do it, just keep at it and buy the right tools if you don't already have them.

[AndrewJames]

https://www.toolstation.com/action-c...ing-oil/p36877

I'd just like to recommend this penetrating oil. It is excellent and fairly priced.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by TourerSteve

A Torque wrench is a calibrated precision instrument and under no circumstances should be used to undo tight bolts by raising the setting.

That's a common myth Steve. All my torque wrenches have reversible heads so they are intended to be used both clockwise and anticlockwise. I have used mine when necessary for loosening and Norbar recently found the calibration to be virtually spot-on despite over 25 years' use. There is therefore no reason why a torque wrench cannot be used to loosen a tight bolt.

If using spanners do as Artic shows and connect two spanners by using a 18mm plug or Allen key

Linking two spanners together exceeds the torque for which each was designed and it's not a technique of which I approve when a superior alternative is available. Using a hexagon socket is safer, more controlled and professional because it enables important suspension bolts to be tightened to the correct torque which is impossible using the ring spanner method.
It worries me why some people are so resistant to spending a little more time to do a job properly.

Hopefully you have sprayed the bush / bolts with a release spray to soak over night ... Rust with age will be holding the bolt ...

There will be no rust on the threads Steve for the reason I've given. I know what rust holding a bolt feels like after struggling with the lower suspension arm balljoints!

Simon

[Tourist]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Linking two spanners together exceeds the torque for which each was designed and it's not a technique of which I approve when a superior alternative is available. Using a hexagon socket is safer, more controlled and professional because it enables important suspension bolts to be tightened to the correct torque which is impossible using the ring spanner method. Simon

I hear what you're saying, Simon, and in an ideal world I totally agree. In the case of my car, I could not remove the ARB and the dual spanner technique was the only way to get the job done without removing the subframe.

One one hand, yes I possibly exceeded the designed torque limit of the ring spanner by adding additional mechanical advantage via a longer lever, however, it has to be said that it withstood the punishment and lives to fight another day. The worst that could have happened is that it could have failed in use and I was prepared for that to happen - I also chose to use a quality tool rather than a cheapy Chinese one.

If/when I have to take the subframe out I'll rectify the issues that prevented removal of the ARB and torque the rear bush bolts up to 150 NM.

In essence though - you are right to promote the correct approach where possible!

[Mike Noc]

Originally Posted by SD1too

That's a common myth Steve. All my torque wrenches have reversible heads so they are intended to be used both clockwise and anticlockwise. I have used mine when necessary for loosening and Norbar recently found the calibration to be virtually spot-on despite over 25 years' use. There is therefore no reason why a torque wrench cannot be used to loosen a tight bolt.


Simon

Nothing to do with myths Simon just good engineering practice. The reason torque wrenches are reversible is so that you can tighten left hand threaded fasteners.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

The reason torque wrenches are reversible is so that you can tighten left hand threaded fasteners.

Hi Mike,

Could you tell us the difference between tightening a left handed thread fastener and releasing a right handed fastener please?

This is what Norbar says on the subject:
"So long as users operate with caution and do not exceed the maximum torque, most torque wrenches can be used for undoing."
Source here.

I hope that this will now put the myth to bed.

Simon

[Mike Noc]

It is nothing to do with which direction you are turning it Simon, but the amount of force you use. As Norbar state you should keep to within the torque limits when using the instrument.

Old rusty seized nuts and bolts can take huge amounts of torque to release, so far better to use a breaker bar designed for that purpose than risk damaging your torque wrench.

The only way to ensure you don't overload the torque wrench is to wind it all the way up to its maximum, and then if it still won't budge the bolt wind it all the way back down - what a complete and utter waste of time when you know a breaker bar will do the job.

As I said, not a myth, just good engineering practice.


.

[AndrewJames]

Would it not be easier and preferable to just use a breaker bar? I would assume if someone owns a torque wrench and works on cars, they will probably have a breaker bar too. They're not expensive. I have two and I'm tight!

Edit: I also own a couple of torque wrenches. The largest I refer to as "Lady Draper". Her smaller companion a non forum friendly name. I view them as the silverware, only to be used carefully and cleaned and polished afterwards. I wouldn't dream of using them as breaker bars.