lock down fines

[genpk]

over here $1,000 fine for breaching social distancing and $50, 000 or imprisonment for breaching a 14 day self quarantine rules.
Seems to be working here!!
Fortunately only had 59 deaths here in Australia thus far and new cases very low-touch wood !!!
Still being cautious about re opening things up though.

[ceedy]

Just make the driver responsible and fine them and put lots of points on their licences


C

[kaiser]

Well, here we go again.
Sure, you can stop a virus from spreading if everybody sees no body else. Total isolation. And then you will starve the virus to death and all starve yourself to death too!. That is not even up for debate, as it is so obvious.
A disease like an influenza cannot be stopped. If you can be sick without showing symptoms, and infect others during this period, self isolation does not even stop infection. Even if a vaccine was to arrive, it is possible it will not be effective (many flu vaccines are not!) or, it may come with serious side effects, like paralysis and other nasties.
So whatever you decide to do as a society, the aim surely must be to keep things working and limit the disease as best as possible within these constraints.
That means that if you want total protection, you stay at home!
For people that realize that things must carry on, they continue what they have been doing with caution, and keep the wheels turning.
The biggest disease that affects modern society is the inability of most to carry a logic thought to conclusion. It creates this dystopian imprisonment, where society buckles under the strain of the proletariat.
Your personal freedom should be guaranteed as one of the cornerstones of a democratic society, and that freedom should extend to all you do, but stop, exactly where it starts interfering with other peoples free choice.
When you have to forcefully arrest the majority, in order to "save" the minority, something is seriously amiss.
Open space and the outdoors is for everybody. Suntanning is one of the most important components of a well functioning immune defense. And exercise is something most people get far too little of. So if people want to partake in this, it should be their choice, not mine, not yours, but theirs!

If people want to play safe and stay at home, that is their choice, and their choice only.

Anything else is just tyranny by emotion and numbers, and snitching neighbours are the best police!

[macafee2]

what about going out for mental health reasons, is that acceptable?
In general I support some form of penalty for those with disregard the lock down and I think the longer it goes on, the more people that will break it.

Some of the news about the economics after lockdown is good even if I am doubtful its true, economy will bounce back but it also said about 2 million being unemployed which is not good. confusing

macafee2

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Simondi

I think the fines should be proportiate to income.

Whilst I fully agree that those breaking the lockdown should be fined, I also have every sympathy for those who live in flats or tenements. It must be awful being in a small flat, unable to get out except for excersise or shopping along with partners, kids and so on.

Good morning Simon. Agreed about the fines being loaded up according to income or benefits. It would be okay to relax the rules for going out as long as people kept to the 2 meters social distance rules. It must be unbearable for single parents who have to live in a room with young children in Bed & Breakfasts, or people living in high rise flats. The thought of getting into a lift with others just to get out of the building and someone in the lift coughs, the fear/apprehension that must generate, is something else.

Here the penalties are more severe, with people being beaten or whipped for breaking curfew. In the link, there is video evidence of police using excessive force to enforce Covid-19 regulations in Nairobi and at the Likoni Ferry in Mombasa. I add, don’t watch if easily offended by scenes of police brutality ....https://youtu.be/sI395AszpVA .....I don’t welcome police beatings or police shooting curfew breakers, but it is a deterrent. If people go out during curfew, they do so at their own peril.

[sworks]

The police in Cumbria are regularly turning people away on the outskirts of the Lake District as people try to still visit or try to isolate here? We are the second largest county in the UK but not hugely populated as we are quite rural and yet the last time I looked we were high up in the infection tables. Out of the four people in this household three are vulnerable with other health issues. We are all staying in other than shopping for ourselves and elderly neighbours. The amount of people out and about is ridiculous. We live on a hill above a main road and traffic doesn’t seem any less than usual other than more ambulances are visible. I think a more enforced lockdown is the way to go as it’s still too vague. I see people on Facebook going out for their daily walk or going out cycling and a lot of them have never done this before so why now? I understand people need to get out and get some fresh air but some are just using it as an excuse to go out. People just aren’t taking it seriously enough. Im strangely classed as a key worker and currently off work, tomorrow we find out if we have to go back in, I’m not going to lie, the current situation scares me.....

[kaiser]

As spoken by an expert.
Drag them down to your level, and beat them with experience.

The figures I have quoted are the official figures, maybe you should debate what is thrown into the debate instead of running back and hide under somebody's skirts!

And, you are entitled to your view and action.

But so am I.!

[Saga Lout]

I have two sets of problems to cope with, shopping for three vulnerable adults whilst I'm in the risk category myself, the other problem is I have no money coming in at all, nothing so I need to work on vehicles as and when. I've had heart issues and I got colitis in 1993, add that to asthma and it's not easy. It's for certain I'd like to lock myself away but who'll look after me or the three others I look out for? I might well get ill by doing good deeds but without me, there's a risk of three others having to go out and being seriously ill and very likely dying, I'm physically stronger than the other three put together so although I'm out and about, they're safe, even if I get ill, the strain on the NHS will be less by my actions. I'm selling on Ebay to help get some money in but I then have to post stuff, nothing is simple. I'm debating if I should sell those genuine brand new V6 front suspension legs I have, they must be worth a small fortune.

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

I have two sets of problems to cope with, shopping for three vulnerable adults whilst I'm in the risk category myself, the other problem is I have no money coming in at all, nothing so I need to work on vehicles as and when. I've had heart issues and I got colitis in 1993, add that to asthma and it's not easy. It's for certain I'd like to lock myself away but who'll look after me or the three others I look out for? I might well get ill by doing good deeds but without me, there's a risk of three others having to go out and being seriously ill and very likely dying, I'm physically stronger than the other three put together so although I'm out and about, they're safe, even if I get ill, the strain on the NHS will be less by my actions. I'm selling on Ebay to help get some money in but I then have to post stuff, nothing is simple. I'm debating if I should sell those genuine brand new V6 front suspension legs I have, they must be worth a small fortune.

can you grocery shop on line? I think you can also change delivery address
with some of the on line grocery companies. It would mean paying multiple deliver charges but the stuff could be delivered to each of their doors.

If you were to become ill doing a good turn, where is the justice, where is the all seeing one? We have NHS staff dying having been helping tend to others, I find that very upsetting.

macafee2

[stocktake]

I can tell you exactly what is happening in care homes, my wife is an RGN in one.

They halted all visits from friends and relatives, They have a good procedure of hygiene when entering and leaving the building and the carers and other staff all understood that if they had symptoms they would stay at home and self isolate. ...

That is all but one carer who just over a week ago started her first shift of the week after two days off and well over halfway through her 12 hour shift approached my wife to say she was going home as she had a fever and incidentally had been coughing for the two days prior to coming back to work. Now we will never know for sure if this act of selfish stupidity caused Covid 19 to enter the building but the staff, including my wife are terrified.

They have just had confirmed their first death of a resident and tests confirmed it was a Covid-19 death, since then 4 other residents are now showing symptoms. PPE was nil. Now they have plastic disposable aprons and gloves but nothing else. The Care home says it has followed Government guidelines that were correct at the time and although trying desperately are struggling to source PPE.

I myself have purchased surgical masks, FFP3 masks and visors that i could get, not in great numbers for my wife and carers to use. Initially Government guidelines mentioned nothing about PPE in care homes.

Yesterday my wife was supposed to be on holiday as we were originally due to be in the sun but she was called in as the agency nurses are reluctant to work in a home that is known Covid 19 +.

During the day 5 of her 7 carers on her unit walked out saying they all had coughs at the same time. They are scared, I understand that, but with better PPE and back up perhaps they would have been willing to continue. My wife started her shift at 7am and finally returned home just before midnight last night.

This morning at 8am she received a call from the home manger asking if she could come in again as another nurse has not turned up. She left home at 8:15.

The care home is struggling get any staff to work there and I totally understand why but my wife is putting her life at risk for the residents of the home who she loves dearly. They need PPE, they need test kits, they need help, they need to feel safe. They have none of these.

Care homes are not all massive establishments with the ability to open 4000 bed hospitals and staff them, they rely on dedicated staff with levels cut to the bone who need to feel safe, nobody is making sure that is happening. A knock on of 5 of the staff going home with cough's? Not allowed to work for at least 7 days, why? No test kits.....