Coronavirus theories

[Bolin]

Originally Posted by Dallas

If intelligence analysts are on board, it's safe to say there is more to this virus than the current story that is being told.

No, it isn't safe to say that. Of course we can expect countries outside China to do their own investigations into this, given the level of distrust between China and the West. But it doesn't mean that the virus was not a natural occurrence.

Several academics have voiced opinion that there is nothing in the genetic make-up of the virus to suggest that it was engineered.

However, a newspaper article I read (Daily Mail - yes papers sometimes get things wrong but it is not like random rumours on Facbook etc) has said that research was being conducted at that institute in Wuhun into coronaviruses and viruses in bats. IIRC it said that there were two separate institutes in Wuhun that did research into diseases.

And in 2004 there was a secondary outbreak of SARS in Beijing that was traced back to it having escaped from a research lab.

So - maybe it came from an animal into the general population or maybe it was an escaped sample from a lab. But we'll probably never know and as the genetic code was shared early on it probably doesn't matter.

[wraymond]

I don't know for a fact that there is any degree of a deliberate war of infection. At least, so far, nobody we know of does either.

What we do know is that USA lawyers are even now preparing, in conjunction with others, a massive class action against China. Presumably this legalistic reaction is based on what the rest of us are guessing at. I wonder if they know there is a previous international arrangement by charter that dictates nations can not be sued in international law for damages, only individuals or companies.

The vultures however are always the first to visit the carcass leaving very little for the lower orders to benefit from.

[trikey]

If the virus came from the wet markets, then why did it not spread decades ago? These markets have been around a very long time.

[Dallas]

Originally Posted by Avulon

So just investigating a possibility makes the possibility a reality?

Really? Get a grip.

My grip is fine thanks.

Originally Posted by Bolin

So - maybe it came from an animal into the general population or maybe it was an escaped sample from a lab. But we'll probably never know and as the genetic code was shared early on it probably doesn't matter.

Its matters greatly.

I cant see the worlds governments sitting back and accepting the history of bat virus experiments at the Wuhan laboratories, and then the outbreak of the coronavirus without serious investigations taking place.

The UK has now joined the US and other intelligence communities in looking at all possibilities as they try to establish the source of the COVID-19 outbreak.

If certain intelligence is suggesting an intern was accidentally infected while working at the Wuhan laboratory, then unknowingly spreading it among the general Wuhan population, this would indicate a human error has occurred e.g inadequate safety standards.

In 2018 officials were worried about safety and management weaknesses at these labs, so I guess it is safe to say these investigations are very much needed.

[Bolin]

I believe the likelihood of Western intelligence services or governments being able to influence the safety standards of Chinese laboratories is 'not very high'.

Anyway the Chinese are perfectly capable of making such improvements, if the political will is there (and it might be now - this outbreak did cause some domestic anger towards the Chinese government, and any situation that threatens that government's control over its people is likely to produce some preventative measures).

And yes, problems with safety standards were known beforehand.

Why not write to the Chinese government yourself and ask that they make some improvements? It'll probably be just as effective as a strongly worded letter from Donald, Boris & the UN

[RobSun]

In the not to distant past I was a design and project engineering manager designing, building and installing laboratories. Some of the things they wanted to do in them were concerning, but the work that went into them to stop things escaping was well engineered and thought out. However I never ever thought that something nasty could never escape, either through a poor design or build, poor maintenance or an error on someone's part. The risk however is extremely low.

This particular lab was a French design and to the best standards possible so the chance of a leak is so low it probably hasn't. The French have looked into this and think not and it is used by institutions from around the world with billions of dollars spent there from the USA. It is not likely that it escaped from this lab.

Independent tests done on the virus around the world have consistently come up with results that say it is not a manufactured virus and has a biological source. The very latest DNA results suggest it does originate from bats, however that version would pose a low risk to humans as its make up means that it would be very difficult for it to infect us. The similarity to the virus that infects us is about 90%. So this means that it has had an intermediate host where it has mutated to become readily infectious to us. A Californian research team has suggested dogs, this has not been verified but markers suggest it. Stronger markers are found in Pangolins, a very rare endangered species that is eaten by the Chinese, who breed it in captivity and illegally import it. Once in China they are kept in appalling conditions and they were sold at the Wuhan market. The virus found in these animals is much closer to that infecting us and it is at the moment thought to be the most likely source. It is thought the bat virus mutated in Pangolins to enable it to pass onto us. The Chinese authorities have turned a blind eye to the sale of this animal but are now taking radical steps to eliminate its sale. A third conjecture is that it has been around for a lot longer than thought and has been infecting humans and having little effect but slowly mutating until now it does.

There is a lot of "fake news" and the like spreading about, some of it logical others not so, burning down 5G masts probably the daftest.

There is a lot more research taking place and answers sort, like why it affects some ethnicities worse than others, and some have no symptoms and others perish. This may be found to have something to do with the third conjecture, who knows?

Lets stop the speculations and thus reduce the fear mongering, let the scientists do their jobs and learn more so that the real truth can be found.

[clf]

Gone are the days when 2 + 2 equalled 5. It seems that 2 + 2 equals 72, but that number seems to rise with each facebook share and retweet.

When did we stop using calculators and begun to rely on google .....

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

[Dallas]

Originally Posted by RobSun

Lets stop the speculations and thus reduce the fear mongering, let the scientists do their jobs and learn more so that the real truth can be found.

Originally Posted by clf

Gone are the days when 2 + 2 equalled 5. It seems that 2 + 2 equals 72, but that number seems to rise with each facebook share and retweet.

When did we stop using calculators and begun to rely on google .....

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Oh for god sake... shall I go and stand in the corner teacher?

People will always speculate, the governments have been speculating ever since this virus started, hence why certain investigations are taking place.

The news reports, the science & environment pages are all there for people's knowledge, gaining an insight and an understanding that surrounds these dark times is all quite normal...

[steveo]

Hi
I found this you tube video very interesting
https://youtu.be/Le_rfTdayLs

We have to find out the truth as to where this terrible disease has come from.

I truly don't know what to believe anymore!
Just spare a thought for all the families dealing with a loss of a loved one please accept our sincere condolences no matter where you are in this world.

Please show your support for all NHS workers, carers and key workers.

Stay safe

Kind regards

Steve & Wendy

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by RobSun

In the not to distant past I was a design and project engineering manager designing, building and installing laboratories. Some of the things they wanted to do in them were concerning, but the work that went into them to stop things escaping was well engineered and thought out. However I never ever thought that something nasty could never escape, either through a poor design or build, poor maintenance or an error on someone's part. The risk however is extremely low.

This particular lab was a French design and to the best standards possible so the chance of a leak is so low it probably hasn't. The French have looked into this and think not and it is used by institutions from around the world with billions of dollars spent there from the USA. It is not likely that it escaped from this lab.

Independent tests done on the virus around the world have consistently come up with results that say it is not a manufactured virus and has a biological source. The very latest DNA results suggest it does originate from bats, however that version would pose a low risk to humans as its make up means that it would be very difficult for it to infect us. The similarity to the virus that infects us is about 90%. So this means that it has had an intermediate host where it has mutated to become readily infectious to us. A Californian research team has suggested dogs, this has not been verified but markers suggest it. Stronger markers are found in Pangolins, a very rare endangered species that is eaten by the Chinese, who breed it in captivity and illegally import it. Once in China they are kept in appalling conditions and they were sold at the Wuhan market. The virus found in these animals is much closer to that infecting us and it is at the moment thought to be the most likely source. It is thought the bat virus mutated in Pangolins to enable it to pass onto us. The Chinese authorities have turned a blind eye to the sale of this animal but are now taking radical steps to eliminate its sale. A third conjecture is that it has been around for a lot longer than thought and has been infecting humans and having little effect but slowly mutating until now it does.

There is a lot of "fake news" and the like spreading about, some of it logical others not so, burning down 5G masts probably the daftest.

There is a lot more research taking place and answers sort, like why it affects some ethnicities worse than others, and some have no symptoms and others perish. This may be found to have something to do with the third conjecture, who knows?

Lets stop the speculations and thus reduce the fear mongering, let the scientists do their jobs and learn more so that the real truth can be found.

I saw the report about the prevalence of BAME infection in relation to population and I thought 'Oh no! Not that red herring again!' I seriously hope the infections in particular regions are taken with specific reference to population make-up. Unless it is very specific rather than a blanket figure it is likely to be extremely controversial. But then of course it becomes twice the monster. Once you get in to that area it becomes even more troubling.