clutch hydraulics

YHT · 23rd September 2023, 15:16

The clutch hydraulics are giving me pain. They gave up working about 70 miles from home but managed to drive it back by starting in bottom and then crashing the gears. The hydraulic fluid was low so topped it up, bled it and all seemed fine. Tried to drive it out of the garage and the clutch pedal went to the floor. Topped it up again and bled; the clutch pedal was OK but again went to the floor when I drove it out. Topped up and bled again, clutch pedal fine so to look for any leaks pushed the pedal to the floor (with normal clutch resistance), jammed it down with a new digging fork handle jammed against the drivers seat. Next day the pedal was stiff as normal but when i tried driving it out the pedal went to the floor again! I put some paper under the bell housing but nothing showing there. The master cylinder was a bit oily so have just finished replacing it and lo and behold it still does the same thing, pedal to the floor when I try and drive it out. I dont understand whats going on; any thoughts/suggestions please?

KWIL · 23rd September 2023, 16:11

Master cylinder seals?

YHT · 23rd September 2023, 16:45

New master cyclinder; good one bought from Rimmers and only installed today. Re[placed it thinking the same as you as the one I replaced showed the same symptoms!

macafee2 · 23rd September 2023, 19:53

disconnect the quick release coupling under or there about's, the fuel filter and see if the clutch pedal still goes to the floor, if it does then the problem is likely to be at or around the master cylinder, if the pedal stays firm then alas the problem is likly to be the slave

macafee2

YHT · 23rd September 2023, 20:39

Thanks, will give it a go.
either way its a mixed blessing. If/when I do the slave and clutch plates I need to do something about the gear box which has a dodgy 3rd gear. Need to try and build 1 good one from 2 with problems, the one thats installed at the moment aside! Watch this space!!!

YHT · 26th September 2023, 16:00

wo is me!
I think my earlier efforts at bleeding the clutch and not finding where fluid was leaking was not thjorough enough. Just had another go with lots of pumping the pedal etc to no deleterious effect BUT when I did the same thing with the engine running found oil coming out of the drain hole in the bell housing. It is the slave cylinder after all! Why it doest leak if the engine isnt running godness only knows; perhaps th slight differences in the leaf springs of the clutch work the slave cylinder. Maybe there are grooves/ribs on the inside of the sacting of the bell housing that have taken time to fill? Whatever; now have to pull the clutch. BUT this gearbox has a 3rd gear that jumps out some times. I bought another where it doesnt like changing down and engaging 2nd. Hope to make one good one out of 2 duds. Anyone know if there are any posts for striping and re-assembling a diesel gearbox please???

Geoff130 · 26th September 2023, 16:44

I had the same problem a couple of months ago and bought a mid priced unit from DMGRS. It's working fine now but if I'd known how flimsy the fluid connectors are in and out ( for some reason there's a groove cut almost through each one) I'd have paid the extra for a metal one and had a bit more peace of mind.

macafee2 · 26th September 2023, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by YHT

wo is me!
I think my earlier efforts at bleeding the clutch and not finding where fluid was leaking was not thjorough enough. Just had another go with lots of pumping the pedal etc to no deleterious effect BUT when I did the same thing with the engine running found oil coming out of the drain hole in the bell housing. It is the slave cylinder after all! Why it doest leak if the engine isnt running godness only knows; perhaps th slight differences in the leaf springs of the clutch work the slave cylinder. Maybe there are grooves/ribs on the inside of the sacting of the bell housing that have taken time to fill? Whatever; now have to pull the clutch. BUT this gearbox has a 3rd gear that jumps out some times. I bought another where it doesnt like changing down and engaging 2nd. Hope to make one good one out of 2 duds. Anyone know if there are any posts for striping and re-assembling a diesel gearbox please???

sorry I cant help with advice about stripping the gearbox but please could you post what the problems are with the two gearboxes?

thanks

macafee2

YHT · 12th October 2023, 17:00

Sorry about the delay in responding; have been away on holiday and dont have access to the club on my tablet.

Anyway.

Gearbox No.1 has a damaged diff. you can turn one shaft/wheel and the other one doesnt move.
Gearbox No.2 (that I bought from a member to salvage the good bits from is reported to have problems with changing down into 2nd gear; I think its probably the syncro-mesh but will see.
3rd gearbox occasionally jumps out of 3rd.

I hope to take the "gears" out of No.1 (not the diff bits) and put them into No.2 keeping No 2's diff.

No.3 is still in the car but has clutch problems. Hope to kill several birds with one stone; will be easier doing the clutch with the gearbox out and have done a gearbox removal with dripping the sub-frame before.
I dont look forward to the tasks physically, especially with cooler weather coming but needs must!
Will report on the trials and tribulation in due course!! Watch this space.

SomedaysIfeel75 · 13th October 2023, 02:55

Sounds painfully familiar.

Two recently-acquired 75's in our family, both with clutch / gearbox issues; one with gushing slave cylinder but otherwise good gearbox, the other has (currently) a good slave but poor gear change.

We have at least one clutch replacement in our future, so I'm here to share your pain brother.

We still love them though, such characterful cars

23rd September 2023, 15:16	#1
YHT Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: suffolk Posts: 271 Thanks: 46 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts	clutch hydraulics The clutch hydraulics are giving me pain. They gave up working about 70 miles from home but managed to drive it back by starting in bottom and then crashing the gears. The hydraulic fluid was low so topped it up, bled it and all seemed fine. Tried to drive it out of the garage and the clutch pedal went to the floor. Topped it up again and bled; the clutch pedal was OK but again went to the floor when I drove it out. Topped up and bled again, clutch pedal fine so to look for any leaks pushed the pedal to the floor (with normal clutch resistance), jammed it down with a new digging fork handle jammed against the drivers seat. Next day the pedal was stiff as normal but when i tried driving it out the pedal went to the floor again! I put some paper under the bell housing but nothing showing there. The master cylinder was a bit oily so have just finished replacing it and lo and behold it still does the same thing, pedal to the floor when I try and drive it out. I dont understand whats going on; any thoughts/suggestions please?

23rd September 2023, 16:11	#2
KWIL Precise Rover 75 Tourer 2.5KV6 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Fleet Posts: 2,956 Thanks: 630 Thanked 617 Times in 480 Posts	Master cylinder seals?

23rd September 2023, 16:45	#3
YHT Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: suffolk Posts: 271 Thanks: 46 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts	New master cyclinder; good one bought from Rimmers and only installed today. Re[placed it thinking the same as you as the one I replaced showed the same symptoms!

23rd September 2023, 19:53	#4
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,943 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	disconnect the quick release coupling under or there about's, the fuel filter and see if the clutch pedal still goes to the floor, if it does then the problem is likely to be at or around the master cylinder, if the pedal stays firm then alas the problem is likly to be the slave macafee2

23rd September 2023, 20:39	#5
YHT Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: suffolk Posts: 271 Thanks: 46 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts	Thanks, will give it a go. either way its a mixed blessing. If/when I do the slave and clutch plates I need to do something about the gear box which has a dodgy 3rd gear. Need to try and build 1 good one from 2 with problems, the one thats installed at the moment aside! Watch this space!!!

26th September 2023, 16:00	#6
YHT Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: suffolk Posts: 271 Thanks: 46 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts	wo is me! I think my earlier efforts at bleeding the clutch and not finding where fluid was leaking was not thjorough enough. Just had another go with lots of pumping the pedal etc to no deleterious effect BUT when I did the same thing with the engine running found oil coming out of the drain hole in the bell housing. It is the slave cylinder after all! Why it doest leak if the engine isnt running godness only knows; perhaps th slight differences in the leaf springs of the clutch work the slave cylinder. Maybe there are grooves/ribs on the inside of the sacting of the bell housing that have taken time to fill? Whatever; now have to pull the clutch. BUT this gearbox has a 3rd gear that jumps out some times. I bought another where it doesnt like changing down and engaging 2nd. Hope to make one good one out of 2 duds. Anyone know if there are any posts for striping and re-assembling a diesel gearbox please???

26th September 2023, 16:44	#7
Geoff130 Loves to post MG ZT 190, Rover 75 CDTi, Honda VFR 750, Honda CB550F Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Derby Posts: 393 Thanks: 75 Thanked 36 Times in 28 Posts	I had the same problem a couple of months ago and bought a mid priced unit from DMGRS. It's working fine now but if I'd known how flimsy the fluid connectors are in and out ( for some reason there's a groove cut almost through each one) I'd have paid the extra for a metal one and had a bit more peace of mind.

12th October 2023, 17:00	#9
YHT Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: suffolk Posts: 271 Thanks: 46 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts	Sorry about the delay in responding; have been away on holiday and dont have access to the club on my tablet. Anyway. Gearbox No.1 has a damaged diff. you can turn one shaft/wheel and the other one doesnt move. Gearbox No.2 (that I bought from a member to salvage the good bits from is reported to have problems with changing down into 2nd gear; I think its probably the syncro-mesh but will see. 3rd gearbox occasionally jumps out of 3rd. I hope to take the "gears" out of No.1 (not the diff bits) and put them into No.2 keeping No 2's diff. No.3 is still in the car but has clutch problems. Hope to kill several birds with one stone; will be easier doing the clutch with the gearbox out and have done a gearbox removal with dripping the sub-frame before. I dont look forward to the tasks physically, especially with cooler weather coming but needs must! Will report on the trials and tribulation in due course!! Watch this space.

13th October 2023, 02:55	#10
SomedaysIfeel75 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: East Sussex Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sounds painfully familiar. Two recently-acquired 75's in our family, both with clutch / gearbox issues; one with gushing slave cylinder but otherwise good gearbox, the other has (currently) a good slave but poor gear change. We have at least one clutch replacement in our future, so I'm here to share your pain brother. We still love them though, such characterful cars