Cold air feed and filter upgrade

[mantianak]

On Saturday while driving back from Southampton I experienced some of the worse rain to drive in.
I drove on the M27 at sub 40mph in what felt like a very long shallow pond and very, very poor visibility. Suddenly I thought of this topic and about my degraded duct and became paranoid.

I stopped at the first service station and popped the bonnet. I have a sealed inline filter (heat shielded carbon encased), I’ve still not got around to finishing the ducting system and this gave me the idea.

Before realising my existing duct had degraded, I set up the aluminium duct to slot into the shanon duct. This now seemed to be a good design. While I pulled over to look if water was being sucked in, I pulled out the aluminium duct from the shanon and allowed it to the air within the engine bay. Warm air yes, wet air no.

A bit of a unrefined system but on very bad rainy days popping the bonnet and un-slotting the duct could be a engine saver.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mantianak

A bit of a unrefined system but on very bad rainy days popping the bonnet and un-slotting the duct could be a engine saver.

We could have a dual-set up in that - as you suggest - allowing the airbox to take air from under the bonnet during winter would be a good preventative measure and then during the summer months allowing a better cold-air feed into the filter box simply by moving some piping around in the engine bay. You could, perhaps, set up a switchable pipe using some sort of valve thingy.

Getting a tad more complicated now but as you say - it can be an engine saver in this bl**dy awful weather of late.

[Countach]

Originally Posted by Simon D

, but you're passengers may wonder what the big sucking noise was!

Oh Err missus
Personally I like to hear sucking noises...

Ok Mr moderator, I accept that this may not get posted!

Edit by GG (I take it we are talking about the sharp intake of breath as you are presented with the bill for your super duper induction kit)

[bad-head-day]

Originally Posted by Simon D

Cyclonic Filtration: Part 2.

Is it theoretically possible to filter water from air using a cyclone - Yes.
Can you do it at home - No.

It's just too darned difficult!

Hello mate. The first thing you need to know is the volume flow rate of the air that the engine is sucking in. Go with the minimum & design the cyclone filter from that. A cyclone filter is designed to have enough inlet velocity so that particles in the gas stream have enough momentum to impact against the filter wall & fall to the bottom of the chamber (i.e. the particle leaves the gas stream). The size of the cyclone filter is governed by the mass flow rate, because this is dependent on the gas velocity & inlet area. The biggest headache is how to release any trapped particles & water, plus there's not that much room to play with judging by the photos. Also, if the filter inlet/outlet is a much smaller diameter than the shannon pipe (or hole where it went)(likely) then the engine is going to use power drawing air through the narrow section & the excercise isn't worthwhile.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by bad-head-day

Hello mate. The first thing you need to know is the volume flow rate of the air that the engine is sucking in. Go with the minimum & design the cyclone filter from that. A cyclone filter is designed to have enough inlet velocity so that particles in the gas stream have enough momentum to impact against the filter wall & fall to the bottom of the chamber (i.e. the particle leaves the gas stream). The size of the cyclone filter is governed by the mass flow rate, because this is dependent on the gas velocity & inlet area. The biggest headache is how to release any trapped particles & water, plus there's not that much room to play with judging by the photos. Also, if the filter inlet/outlet is a much smaller diameter than the shannon pipe (or hole where it went)(likely) then the engine is going to use power drawing air through the narrow section & the excercise isn't worthwhile.

In a word. Yes.
Hence my acknowledgement of it being a bit ambitious to achieve correctly.

Problem #1: I cannot find reference to the minimum air flow rate of the KV6.
Problem #2: How would you engineer a precise conical filter AND container within the confines of the engineering requirements for cyclonic filtration to work?
Problem #3: Would you car look cool with a Dyson under the bonnet?!
Problem #4: Cyclonic filtration is, at best, 50% efficient. It probably wont filter out enough particulates like a good foam filter does. Plus you have the problem of removing the particulates/water vapour from the cyclone without comprimising the cyclone.

As you can see. Many problems and not many answers. Which is why I kinda gave up on this one...


If you want to have a crack at it, then by all means! I'll be interested in hearing your results. In the meantime, I'm sticking to my ITG filter and looking at increasing the breathing efficiency through a couple of other ideas....

[bad-head-day]

It's totally impractical I know but there are so-called "classical dimensions" for cyclone filters. I thought you modders were after something to remove water from the inlet, not a full replacement

You can improve the overall efficiency by connecting more filters in series, then you'd have a bunch of cyclone filters trailing along the floor Get 7 cyclone filters of 50% collection efficiency in a row to achieve +99% total collection efficiency. You could stick them up the A post, you couldn't use the front window but the Mrs. sits there anyway

[Simon]

Originally Posted by bad-head-day

It's totally impractical I know but there are so-called "classical dimensions" for cyclone filters. I thought you modders were after something to remove water from the inlet, not a full replacement

You can improve the overall efficiency by connecting more filters in series, then you'd have a bunch of cyclone filters trailing along the floor Get 7 cyclone filters of 50% collection efficiency in a row to achieve +99% total collection efficiency. You could stick them up the A post, you couldn't use the front window but the Mrs. sits there anyway

I think the answer to remove water from the inlet is to stop all this bleeding rain we keep having.

Currently, I have a short section of shanon tube attached the down-pipe from the filter box. This aims a couple of inches away from the outside edge of the bumper. Combined with the removal of the blanking plate from the lower section of the bumper in my Mk1 Zed, it provides a cold air source yet is protected from the majority of rain/splashes etc. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

I'm currently weighing up the idea of removing the OEM filterbox and fitting an aftermarket filter/cold air feed or going with modding the filterbox by way of attaching a large bore inlet pipe to it to aid breathing. Hmmm... decisions decisions (and cost!)...

[JohnDotCom]

No Good up Here then with all the Flooded Roads, Streams, Fords & even what I can only describe as Weirs over some damaged Roads. I find following the Lorries through closely in their clear wake is best but risky. Its when the depth signs say 3FT or more I start to Panic. The Waters regularily wash away the Railway Track foundations!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by JohnDotCom

No Good up Here then with all the Flooded Roads, Streams, Fords & even what I can only describe as Weirs over some damaged Roads. I find following the Lorries through closely in their clear wake is best but risky. Its when the depth signs say 3FT or more I start to Panic. The Waters regularily wash away the Railway Track foundations!

Blimey! You'll be investing an a boat soon then John! Maybe even the worlds first Aqua-75!

[JohnDotCom]

Originally Posted by Simon D

Blimey! You'll be investing an a boat soon then John! Maybe even the worlds first Aqua-75!

Not far off there, Don't forget 12 Years ago we (Towyn) was nearly destroyed by the sea coming straight through leaving people living in Tempory Caravans for up to 2 years! Granada TV virtually moved in for their National Coverage over 450 homes mainly bungalows under several feet of sea water and contents of the Sewerage Farm!
We are at Sea Level, Perfectly Flat, but we do now have the Protection of a sea Wall Built. Better late than never.