Why do we suffer? - Page 2

capese21 · 6th February 2009, 11:13

I recently worked in north Sweden and the roads there were covered in compacted snow.
All the cars were fitted with studded tyres.

They have snow for many months every year so driving in it is more normal than driving on a asphalt road surface.

It would imho be mad to have their sort of snow blowing clearing equipment parked up just to get used for 4 days a year.

To be fair all the main roads here have been cleared and gritted.

E.

Jürgen · 6th February 2009, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragrad

I think Germany does not even use salt to clear its roads.. some cheap chemical which does not affect vehicles... is this right?

They still do use salt, but mixed with grit and some fluid so it sticks on the road for longer. But some towns have outlawed the use of salt by private house owners to keep the pavement clear, although they are still obligated to clear the path in front of their properties. Only grit is allowed in such cases.

During this time of year a lot of Germans are using winter tires, or at least all season tires (which may be a good choice if you don't have to drive in the mountains). Especially since it's the law to use appropriate tires, you can get fined for causing trouble with the wrong type of tyre. But there are still some people trying to get away with standard (summer) tires, always enough to block some roads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David3807

Oh and dont read the papers/watch the TV news too much - I think they may have a problem with the difference between a good story (in their eyes) and the whole truth.

How true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeners

The public need to learn how to drive in adverse weather conditions or stay at home.

This would be very helpful indeed. My only reason to cancel a non essential journey is the unpredictability of other drivers. Although I do like driving in snowy conditions, especially on less travelled roads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David3807

LAck of common sense also comes into it I think.

Much too often. I don't care if some idiot driver is killing himself, just clear the debris and that's it. But sadly much too often the innocent will suffer the most.

CFS75 · 6th February 2009, 11:46

It's difficult to compare the situation today with that of years ago because of climate changes and traffic conditions, but from personal experience I would like to add some comments.

During the 1950s and 60s we had several severe winters with plenty of snow. There were no motorways at the time, few HGVs and hardly any Artics, and most people travelled to work by bus, bicycle or on foot.

Gritting in towns was generally carried out with a couple of lads shovelling sand off the back of a moving lorry and roadmen with wheelbarrows spreading sand on footpaths. In the countryside the roads were were cleared by local farmers using their tractors as snowploughs to help out the Council Highway teams who never had enough transport or equipment to do the job by themselves.

The sand, to the best of my memory, had no salt added at that time, but provided some grip on the hard packed snow and/or ice.

Many drivers at that time fitted extra grip tyres as standard rather than the summer tyres that we all use today. I used chains during snow conditions for my 20 mile journey to work on A and B class roads.

During the mid 1960s Councils started using salt mixed with the sand/grit in towns and on trunk roads, and this certainly cleared the snow from the carriageways. However I remember the problem that this caused to me personally. I would start from my village along roads with quite deep snow, but with chains fitted I had no traction problems, (apart from the occasional drift), and then onto the A road that had been salted and cleared. With chains on it then became slow progress because of vibration, noise and causing damage to the road surface! The last section of my journey was again on B roads, so once more the chains got me through the snow to work.

Over the years as more roads were treated with salt, chains were less used, and I believe that it is now illegal to use chains on roads that have been cleared. To anyone who says that it is a simple job to fit and remove chains when necessary, I would say try it when it's freezing hard!

I have often wondered if sand/grit was used with no added salt, would drivers learn to accept the conditions of driving on hard packed ice/snow with limited grip? I am sure that roads in Scandinavia, Canada and others are not subjected to the addition of tons of salt every time there is a snowfall?

Colin S

andyw · 6th February 2009, 23:38

People in Scandinavia have two sets of wheels for their cars. One for summer, one for winter.

Juergen made a point you might have missed. In Germany and Denmark for certain the citizens have a legal duty to clear the paths of snow outside their homes. Over here we do the opposite. Don't mess with it and it is an act of God. Attempt to clear it away and it's your fault if someone slips.

I travelled from Bracknell to Manchester in record time last night. Everyone stayed home and there were no holdups anywhere. Even on the M42 around south Birmingham there wasn't enough traffic to make it worth turning on the traffic management system. What a result!

James.uk · 6th February 2009, 23:54

>>>>The public need to learn how to drive in adverse weather conditions or stay at home.<<<<

Most roads get blocked by idiot drivers with lead feet! A two hour lesson on a skid pan should be part of the driving test.

.

Dragrad · 7th February 2009, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by James.uk

>>>>The public need to learn how to drive in adverse weather conditions or stay at home.<<<<

Most roads get blocked by idiot drivers with lead feet! A two hour lesson on a skid pan should be part of the driving test.

.

I've seen a guy in LWB Land Rover unable to climb a small rise in the road that I could have taken in a front wheel drive Nissan Sunny 1300cc van!! WHY? Because he had absolutely no idea how to drive in snow. All four wheels spinning as he applied maximum revs, blocking the entire road!! And the more he slewed around, the more he applied the throttle, and the angrier he got... the more throttle he applied.....

I parked up in a farmyard and walked home.. passing the offending vehicle, did I offer advice? NO... I was enjoying the spectacle too much!!

Am I bad man?

(Rhetorical)

6th February 2009, 11:13	#11
capese21 This is my second home MG ZTT 180 Sports Auto. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 18 Thanked 180 Times in 143 Posts	I recently worked in north Sweden and the roads there were covered in compacted snow. All the cars were fitted with studded tyres. They have snow for many months every year so driving in it is more normal than driving on a asphalt road surface. It would imho be mad to have their sort of snow blowing clearing equipment parked up just to get used for 4 days a year. To be fair all the main roads here have been cleared and gritted. E.

6th February 2009, 11:46	#13
CFS75 Loves to post Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE Auto Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colchester Posts: 341 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	It's difficult to compare the situation today with that of years ago because of climate changes and traffic conditions, but from personal experience I would like to add some comments. During the 1950s and 60s we had several severe winters with plenty of snow. There were no motorways at the time, few HGVs and hardly any Artics, and most people travelled to work by bus, bicycle or on foot. Gritting in towns was generally carried out with a couple of lads shovelling sand off the back of a moving lorry and roadmen with wheelbarrows spreading sand on footpaths. In the countryside the roads were were cleared by local farmers using their tractors as snowploughs to help out the Council Highway teams who never had enough transport or equipment to do the job by themselves. The sand, to the best of my memory, had no salt added at that time, but provided some grip on the hard packed snow and/or ice. Many drivers at that time fitted extra grip tyres as standard rather than the summer tyres that we all use today. I used chains during snow conditions for my 20 mile journey to work on A and B class roads. During the mid 1960s Councils started using salt mixed with the sand/grit in towns and on trunk roads, and this certainly cleared the snow from the carriageways. However I remember the problem that this caused to me personally. I would start from my village along roads with quite deep snow, but with chains fitted I had no traction problems, (apart from the occasional drift), and then onto the A road that had been salted and cleared. With chains on it then became slow progress because of vibration, noise and causing damage to the road surface! The last section of my journey was again on B roads, so once more the chains got me through the snow to work. Over the years as more roads were treated with salt, chains were less used, and I believe that it is now illegal to use chains on roads that have been cleared. To anyone who says that it is a simple job to fit and remove chains when necessary, I would say try it when it's freezing hard! I have often wondered if sand/grit was used with no added salt, would drivers learn to accept the conditions of driving on hard packed ice/snow with limited grip? I am sure that roads in Scandinavia, Canada and others are not subjected to the addition of tons of salt every time there is a snowfall? Colin S

6th February 2009, 23:38	#14
andyw Avid contributor MG ZT CDTi (departed to pastures new) MGTF, MGC, Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Altrincham, Cheshire Posts: 214 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	People in Scandinavia have two sets of wheels for their cars. One for summer, one for winter. Juergen made a point you might have missed. In Germany and Denmark for certain the citizens have a legal duty to clear the paths of snow outside their homes. Over here we do the opposite. Don't mess with it and it is an act of God. Attempt to clear it away and it's your fault if someone slips. I travelled from Bracknell to Manchester in record time last night. Everyone stayed home and there were no holdups anywhere. Even on the M42 around south Birmingham there wasn't enough traffic to make it worth turning on the traffic management system. What a result!

6th February 2009, 23:54	#15
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	>>>>The public need to learn how to drive in adverse weather conditions or stay at home.<<<< Most roads get blocked by idiot drivers with lead feet! A two hour lesson on a skid pan should be part of the driving test. .