Using the Hard Shoulder, Utter Madness?

JohnDotCom · 7th October 2007, 12:20

The Government will announce tomorrow to roll out plans for the entire Motorway network to use the Hard Shoulder as an extra lane on Motorways to reduce Congestion and cut down on stationary traffic by 18% on Motorways.
IT IS NOT APRIL 1ST BEFORE YOU LOOK.
Although anything that speeds up the traffic is welcome, myself and some of my police colleagues think this is mental!
Accidents if someone pulls up on hard shoulder not remembering new rules,
How do emergency service vehicles get to said accidents if all lanes are blocked with traffic.
This has evidently been running on a area of Motorway without incidents so now being rolled out.
What do you all think Please?

Gryphon · 7th October 2007, 12:23

Utter madness :SHOCKED: there has to be somewhere for broken down vehicles to park up. I can see a lot of rear enders happening here.

GreyGhost · 7th October 2007, 12:24

Like you say John, nowhere to go in an emergency. By all means use the hard shoulder when absolutely necessary, otherwise IMHO a very bad decision.

Tootall · 7th October 2007, 12:33

The M42 has a section which uses the hardshoulder at peak times to help traffic flow, it does work but you do need to your eyes everywhere but in order for them to use this section they first had to build new laybys for people to pull into to help keep the shoulder clear.
When this new lane is in use you have to keep an eye on upcoming junctions as if you wish to carry on up/down that section of m/way you then have to try and pull back out into lane 1 to allow the traffic that wish to leave at that junction to pull over on to the hardshoulder which then becomes a filterlane. (i hope that made sense).
Here is a LINK which may explain it better than i did.

GreyGhost · 7th October 2007, 12:38

I would like to point out the amount of debris to be found on the hard shoulder. Simply not a lane I would willingly use unless guaranteed swept clean.

JohnDotCom · 7th October 2007, 12:45

Evidently the electronic notification boards will give you a warning of broken down vehicles, and more to be Installed.
Oh Yea, and when are they ever near an accident now?
Your comments GG are very valid, I have had to remove "debris" from motorway before,
Suitcases, Whole tyre tread blown out, Number Plates, Exhausts, a sunroof and worse one was a Roof rack full of wooden boxes!
The Highway Agency Vehicles are going to be doubled to help the new system, still no more Police.

RLeon · 7th October 2007, 12:52

Here in the Netherlands the system is used on busy parts of the motorway on peak hours. It reduces congestion. But these parts are monitored with cameras’. If a car or truck brakes down the lane is immediately closed. Because the hard shoulder is the used regular, 5 days a week, there is no debris.

JohnDotCom · 7th October 2007, 13:00

Not something I can see happening here in UK with Fortnightly rubbish collections if you are lucky.

BMC123 · 7th October 2007, 13:08

as said, IF it is based on the workable netherlands system, it could work, but it would need MAJOR media coverage so as all drivers knew about it. A few articles in the daily papers would not work, to be honest the only effective method would be a household mailing, and even then you could be pretty sure a lot of people would ignore it.
and if it is only used in certain areas, what happens when joe blogs from the county next door drives down the road and knows nothing about it? I can see a lot of problems, and more work for our already overstretched police and emergancy services.

Greeners · 7th October 2007, 13:30

As an ex HATO (Highways Agency Traffic Officer) and now as someone that works on the M25 daily, I have mixed views on this.

Statistically, the hard shoulder is the most dangerous part of the motorway. This is one of the reasons the advice is to always get out and get awy from the vehicle when you break down on the hard shoulder.

What this will do is stop people stopping on the hard shoulder for no good reason, they'll use the emergency bays that will be provided every 500m or so.

If you do break down on the hard shoulder when it's being used as a running lane, during peak times, it will be relatively safe as the traffic will slow down and bunch up. Off peak it won't be used so they'll be no issue.

Motorways are again statistically safer then APTR ( all purpose trunk roads) and they don't have hard shoulders, tend to be unlit and have less cameras and patrols on them.

It is in all honesty a short term solution to a long term problem, and if you look at parts of the motorway network that have been widend to 4 or 5 lanes, they are still congested at peak times......

View Poll Results: Is it safe and would you use it?
This is to Scary for words.	5	22.73%
Utter Madness, I wouldn't use it.	11	50.00%
Sensible but I wouldn't use it.	0	0%
Sensible I would use it.	5	22.73%
A Great Idea, can't wait.	0	0%
No feelings one way or the other	1	4.55%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

7th October 2007, 12:20	#1
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Using the Hard Shoulder, Utter Madness? The Government will announce tomorrow to roll out plans for the entire Motorway network to use the Hard Shoulder as an extra lane on Motorways to reduce Congestion and cut down on stationary traffic by 18% on Motorways. IT IS NOT APRIL 1ST BEFORE YOU LOOK. Although anything that speeds up the traffic is welcome, myself and some of my police colleagues think this is mental! Accidents if someone pulls up on hard shoulder not remembering new rules, How do emergency service vehicles get to said accidents if all lanes are blocked with traffic. This has evidently been running on a area of Motorway without incidents so now being rolled out. What do you all think Please? Last edited by JohnDotCom; 7th October 2007 at 12:25.. Reason: Spelling correction

7th October 2007, 12:52	#7
RLeon Avid contributor Audi A3 E-tron/Triumph Stag/MG7 (1:18) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Limburg Posts: 121 Thanks: 1 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	It works Here in the Netherlands the system is used on busy parts of the motorway on peak hours. It reduces congestion. But these parts are monitored with cameras’. If a car or truck brakes down the lane is immediately closed. Because the hard shoulder is the used regular, 5 days a week, there is no debris.

7th October 2007, 13:08	#9
BMC123 Posted a thing or two 2004 1.8 Connoisseur SE, 1999 XJ8 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,163 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	as said, IF it is based on the workable netherlands system, it could work, but it would need MAJOR media coverage so as all drivers knew about it. A few articles in the daily papers would not work, to be honest the only effective method would be a household mailing, and even then you could be pretty sure a lot of people would ignore it. and if it is only used in certain areas, what happens when joe blogs from the county next door drives down the road and knows nothing about it? I can see a lot of problems, and more work for our already overstretched police and emergancy services. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

7th October 2007, 13:30	#10
Greeners Moderator MG-ZTT Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 19,798 Thanks: 161 Thanked 1,249 Times in 1,036 Posts	As an ex HATO (Highways Agency Traffic Officer) and now as someone that works on the M25 daily, I have mixed views on this. Statistically, the hard shoulder is the most dangerous part of the motorway. This is one of the reasons the advice is to always get out and get awy from the vehicle when you break down on the hard shoulder. What this will do is stop people stopping on the hard shoulder for no good reason, they'll use the emergency bays that will be provided every 500m or so. If you do break down on the hard shoulder when it's being used as a running lane, during peak times, it will be relatively safe as the traffic will slow down and bunch up. Off peak it won't be used so they'll be no issue. Motorways are again statistically safer then APTR ( all purpose trunk roads) and they don't have hard shoulders, tend to be unlit and have less cameras and patrols on them. It is in all honesty a short term solution to a long term problem, and if you look at parts of the motorway network that have been widend to 4 or 5 lanes, they are still congested at peak times...... __________________ *David* Impecunity is the mother of ingenuity Useful how to's for common problems Car Of The Month Jan 2014 [SatNav Power Down] [Coolant Level] [SatNav Repair] [Diesel Non Starting] [Paint Codes] [Rear Light Seals] [Reversing Light Switch] [Bleeding Brakes][Sunroof Drain] [Early ZT's][Instrument Pack Diagnostics][ATC Diagnostics]

7th October 2007, 12:23	#2
Gryphon Passed Away 75 CDT Connoisseur + VW Trike + Kawasaki 1000LTD Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Summer wine country Posts: 885 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Utter madness :SHOCKED: there has to be somewhere for broken down vehicles to park up. I can see a lot of rear enders happening here.

7th October 2007, 12:24	#3
GreyGhost Banned 180+ Sport Auto Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bedford Middle Level Posts: 17,787 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 5 Posts	Like you say John, nowhere to go in an emergency. By all means use the hard shoulder when absolutely necessary, otherwise IMHO a very bad decision.

7th October 2007, 12:33	#4
Tootall Gets stuck in ZTT - CDTi Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sat at my laptop Posts: 609 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The M42 has a section which uses the hardshoulder at peak times to help traffic flow, it does work but you do need to your eyes everywhere but in order for them to use this section they first had to build new laybys for people to pull into to help keep the shoulder clear. When this new lane is in use you have to keep an eye on upcoming junctions as if you wish to carry on up/down that section of m/way you then have to try and pull back out into lane 1 to allow the traffic that wish to leave at that junction to pull over on to the hardshoulder which then becomes a filterlane. (i hope that made sense). Here is a LINK which may explain it better than i did.

7th October 2007, 12:38	#5
GreyGhost Banned 180+ Sport Auto Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bedford Middle Level Posts: 17,787 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 5 Posts	I would like to point out the amount of debris to be found on the hard shoulder. Simply not a lane I would willingly use unless guaranteed swept clean.

7th October 2007, 12:45	#6
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Evidently the electronic notification boards will give you a warning of broken down vehicles, and more to be Installed. Oh Yea, and when are they ever near an accident now? Your comments GG are very valid, I have had to remove "debris" from motorway before, Suitcases, Whole tyre tread blown out, Number Plates, Exhausts, a sunroof and worse one was a Roof rack full of wooden boxes! The Highway Agency Vehicles are going to be doubled to help the new system, still no more Police.

7th October 2007, 13:00	#8
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Not something I can see happening here in UK with Fortnightly rubbish collections if you are lucky.