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Old 16th June 2019, 15:22   #31
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Originally Posted by mss View Post
It becomes a problem for those living around you if you have three vehicles but parking space for only one. This is a widespread problem in cities leading to antisocial behaviour.

In terms of proposed solutions, I have many that address the short-term and others addressing the long-term. These range from exponentially increasing taxes for multi-car households without private parking spaces to licence to have more than one child per household.
I may be fortunate, but I pay council tax in proportion to the size of my property, on which I park my various vehicles, SORNED or not. I can only drive one vehicle at a time, my 4x4 only does around 3,000miles a year, but I pay more tax on that than on the Rover, which did 24,000miles last year. Perhaps there should be a link between Council Tax and DVLA, so that your Council tax is increased, depending on how many vehicles are registered at a property? So either way, you are paying for the space to park your vehicles, SORNED or not.
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Old 16th June 2019, 15:29   #32
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Originally Posted by mss View Post
It becomes a problem for those living around you if you have three vehicles but parking space for only one. This is a widespread problem in cities leading to antisocial behaviour.

In terms of proposed solutions, I have many that address the short-term and others addressing the long-term. These range from exponentially increasing taxes for multi-car households without private parking spaces to licence to have more than one child per household.
you made a blanket statement which I hope you can now see is inappropriate. I park both my cars and my bike on the drive or in the garage but even if i parked them on the road, your solution to limit to 1 child is too late, I have two. How does increasing tax help my children engage in sport particularly if I am on minimum wage.


With more and more households having a car per person they have greater freedom to travel. Out of town and in some areas Public transport is not yet at the stage where the car is not a viable option.


I don't know the solution but I would like to see if it is feasible, for those living and working in the same town or city to viably use public transport instead of a car. Thousands of people travel into town by public transport.


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Old 16th June 2019, 15:34   #33
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So changing the protocol results in a change of behaviour? Don’t think so! All that changes is more attempts to get around it by subversive means. When did any rise in duty, that’s the level of the tax or the method of collection and charging, stop anyone driving or inhibit their use of the roads? I don’t remember any changes in density of road traffic to date other than continual crowding and charges have continually risen.

Tolls anyone? Try crossing at Dartford without prepayment, a letter arrives in a couple of days! The same could if necessary happen anywhere where ANPR operates.

Further, the reluctance to repair damaged roads, especially those under Council responsibility, is a matter of sometime/never. As ever, taxes are the only thing certain so they have to be managed. It’s a question of understanding the rules and using them to advantage.

It was thought that the abolition of the tax disc would enable tax dodgers to get away with it. The advent of publicly available info online put paid to that, good thing too. Just time your changes to best advantage. I’ve used SORN twice now and avoided duplicate charges, just a question of timing. It is not a hypothecated tax, in spite of the title, so is used across total government expenditure and as usual liable to pressing conditional grab.
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Old 16th June 2019, 15:40   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
you made a blanket statement which I hope you can now see is inappropriate. I park both my cars and my bike on the drive or in the garage but even if i parked them on the road, your solution to limit to 1 child is too late, I have two. How does increasing tax help my children engage in sport particularly if I am on minimum wage.


With more and more households having a car per person they have greater freedom to travel. Out of town and in some areas Public transport is not yet at the stage where the car is not a viable option.


I don't know the solution but I would like to see if it is feasible, for those living and working in the same town or city to viably use public transport instead of a car. Thousands of people travel into town by public transport.


macafee2

This is not personal - we are only debating after all.

The problem with "freedom to travel" through multi-car ownership is that it could be considered indulgent.

ps I am a multi-car owner through choice but would not be so if I lived in a built up area. When in London visiting family, I always go around on public transport.
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Old 16th June 2019, 15:51   #35
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yes I knew that. I thought it would be obvious though, having a 'modest' additional cost to fuel would manipulate the behaviour of taking less journeys. Thereby reducing emissions or encouraging the transfer to electric power vehicles.
That can be done in addition to ved not instead of
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Old 16th June 2019, 15:55   #36
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I can sorn it and still park on the road just as I can not tax it and drive on the road, what has sorn now gained?

put a tax disc in the window and a member of the public may note no tax and call the police, there, we now have extra eyes checking for tax
Not saying this was done but people could be asked to report no tax

no tax, should not be on road
sorn, should not be on the road
no sorn and no tax but parked in the garage, fine as in financial penalty
no sorn and no tax but on road, fine as in financial penalty

no worse off not having the sorn system

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Without sorn and the automatic fine people could do as they please a lot easier. Its not perfect but better than nothing.
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Old 16th June 2019, 15:55   #37
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So changing the protocol results in a change of behaviour? Don’t think so! All that changes is more attempts to get around it by subversive means. When did any rise in duty, that’s the level of the tax or the method of collection and charging, stop anyone driving or inhibit their use of the roads? I don’t remember any changes in density of road traffic to date other than continual crowding and charges have continually risen.

Tolls anyone? Try crossing at Dartford without prepayment, a letter arrives in a couple of days! The same could if necessary happen anywhere where ANPR operates.

Further, the reluctance to repair damaged roads, especially those under Council responsibility, is a matter of sometime/never. As ever, taxes are the only thing certain so they have to be managed. It’s a question of understanding the rules and using them to advantage.

It was thought that the abolition of the tax disc would enable tax dodgers to get away with it. The advent of publicly available info online put paid to that, good thing too. Just time your changes to best advantage. I’ve used SORN twice now and avoided duplicate charges, just a question of timing. It is not a hypothecated tax, in spite of the title, so is used across total government expenditure and as usual liable to pressing conditional grab.
I too try to organise my vehicle changes so I don't pay duplicate tax - generally during a holiday period. In this case, the end of June falls conveniently at a weekend, 2 weeks hence, and I intended to SORN the Renault on the Friday after work, and switch the insurance back to the Rover for work on Monday morning. But now I have been obliged to SORN the Rover, or reinsure it today, result is I pay 2 months of tax. At least now I know, and will be able to plan when my car suffers from clutch failure!
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Old 16th June 2019, 17:03   #38
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Two people have been driving round here in an uninsured and untaxed (since September) car. By staying away from town they've managed to avoid ANPR since police cars are like hen's teeth out this way and I don't know how many are equipped. They also own another vehicle that's not insured or taxed, although that one doesn't seem to leave the layby where it's stashed. So I reported them using 101.


It appears they've been clamped and/or towed as the last sighting of one of them was on foot.
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Old 16th June 2019, 18:56   #39
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That can be done in addition to ved not instead of
......... and then add more cost to the collection system? Adding it onto the fuel would add nothing to the collection. The fuel way, will reduce the collection costs.

I can see the potential small increase in car ownership (as mss fears), because the payment of VED although DD has reduced that 'hardship' a little. At least (for the majority) the owners will have to pay as they use.

If it was agreed that any increase would be used to offset the VED and maybe a little extra to pay for the infrastructure. The haulage (and us) firms ultimately, if implemented correctly would actually start to benefit, as roads would be better repaired, possibly replaced, leading to less wear and tear and hopefully faster (maybe too hopeful) roads.
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Old 16th June 2019, 19:08   #40
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As the number of electric vehicles is going to greatly increase in the coming years the total income produced by adding more to the tax on petrol/diesel is progressively going to decrease.

The fairest tax is on mileage usage.

My suggestion is to make the charge annually (like the existing vehicle tax) but based on the mileage shown on the annual MOT.

Should a vehicle be sold or scrapped during the year the mileage should be verified by a MOT station then the mileage cost due at that time would be paid by the seller/scrapper.at the same time as they notify the DVLA of the change.

Any clocking would perhaps be deterred by a very extensive ban and heavy fine.
on the fuel MAKES it payable based on mileage, without additional cost on the public purse for collection. As for electric cars, have their charging units separately metered, which is charged, by the electric company, in the same way fuel is charged, ie a proportion is for the electric, and the rest is the tax. No costs in collection, no costs in enforcement, and no costs in verification of mileage, as well as no potential hardship and non payment from an unforeseen bill.

the bans, and fines for mileage diddling exist now, and have done for decades. Look how easy is it for us to give our cars a 'haircut', to maintain the integrity, a tachograph system as in haulage firms would need to be implemented, of which we then have to pay for the monitoring of. So we get less value for money.
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