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Old 6th June 2019, 13:39   #151
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Originally Posted by mss View Post
My mistake Clive, it was £450m.


This may help, as will publications form the UK treasury at the time if you care to do a search. https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...-20100712.html
Greebcarcongress is a website with a certain “bias” and has not updated itself as to what actually happened.

The £410M loan was announced by the EIB in 2009 only after the U.K. government agreed to guarantee £360m.

Then in 2012 Ford announced the closure of the Eastleigh Transit plant as well as other closure after the EIB offered a loan of £80m to facilitate this. The U.K. Government then withdrew the £360m guarantee because of this.

There is now no official record of that loan ever taking place - the only references to it ore on sites like the one you cite Maninder and are out of date having not been updated.

The EIB then lent Ford £150m to develop an engine plant in Turkey. This was in addition to the £80 m loan to move the Transit factory.

As I say - it is my understanding that the huge loan to Ford of £410m by the EIB with a U.K. government guarantee never took place.

If you can find any official confirmation of the loan actually taking place I would be pleased to see it.

What can be seen in Hansard is that the whole thing collapsed. The U.K. government tried hard to keep Ford in the U.K. - but when offered cheap loans to go elsewhere - that is what they did.
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Old 6th June 2019, 14:28   #152
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Good for you DD. It is NOT EU money it is taxpayers money.

Consider this. Which taxpayers pay the larger share to the Brussels Project.

Apparently JLR no longer require the Bridgend product. A decision made years ago and the contract due to expire soon unless this news is of the FAKE variety.

Simple economics of restructuring which is now and for the past few decades has been rife in Alien Controlled UK Based Industry.

Earlier watched BBC's mid-day show with Ace Media-bot one A Neil in charge of discussion exchanges. Neil is one of the very few on the guaranteed revenue stream broadcasting organ I have much time for. However, even he banged the "What are the Government Going to do" drum to attract investment to the deserted brownfield sites all along the South Wales.... not forgetting the many others in the UK. Global downsizing was suggested as playing a part. There's far more to it than that.

Based on past form of any Government be they in the Blue or red opposing corners, the Blue corner will find taxpayer billions to attract and sustain FOREIGN Investment. That'll do it... as it has worked so fortuitously for the Nation as a whole.

The current "We have all the answers" shower in the Red corner will simply create more Taxpayer funded Public Sector Money Pits. Sorted for their few, not the Nation as a whole.

UK Government of any complexion should provide taxpayer funds to encourage UK owned and controlled organisations to set up and ensure long term survival to benefit all. That will require the dreaded by the media-bots U-Turn of mindsets. UK owned and controlled interests who will NOT mark our cards every now and then that when it suits them, not us, like Honda, Ford et al, they will up sticks and go.

For far too long the UK has entrusted its assets to asset strippers. Those who do not and will never have our best interests at the top of their agenda. Nowhere near. Rocket science it aint although it appears that it is to some ... maybe too many who really do believe they know better than the rest of us.

These are not opinions, they are facts. Those plain facts have affected some folks close to me and millions of others Nationwide and still ongoing to this day as the Bridgend closure confirms.. It has to be stopped... or, else. However, I fear, the mindsets of those and many others we entrust the Nation's longer term well being no longer have sufficient quantities of the right stuff to make it so.

The late great Soichiro Honda once said. In time, there will be only four major car manufacturers... oh yes... and little Morgan. I fear he may just be wrong about the latter. Morgan is now in foreign financial control.

Still they talk of the now mythical UK Automotive Industry. That now is well beyond the endangered species Red List and approaching total extinction.

Looking on the brighter side... ... I can still go out and buy a new MG today as I have had the pleasure of doing more than once in the past.

Thing is ...MADE IN CHINA!

It's what we as a Nation really excel at doing. Chumpions.
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Old 6th June 2019, 15:42   #153
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Greebcarcongress is a website with a certain “bias” and has not updated itself as to what actually happened.

..............
This in my view could be considered a frivolous claim of the type often used in politics when facts cannot be disputed.

There are numerous other sources of the same information on the web - just do a search.

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Originally Posted by Darcydog View Post

............The £410M loan was announced by the EIB in 2009 only after the U.K. government agreed to guarantee £360m.

.................
As a financial guru, you will no doubt agree that requiring a guarantor is common practice with loans, even EIB loans. So this is just sound commercial practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcydog View Post
......

As I say - it is my understanding that the huge loan to Ford of £410m by the EIB with a U.K. government guarantee never took place.

............
Not so. Would you be good enough to point to your source of this information?

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Originally Posted by Darcydog View Post
........
There is now no official record of that loan ever taking place - the only references to it ore on sites like the one you cite Maninder and are out of date having not been updated.

...........
I could point to the most definitive reference possible, but would really like to see the references to your claims above.

Also, we must not forget the £320m loan that the EIB gave to Jaguar Landrover during the same year for R&D into economical vehicles. Nor, indeed the circa £118billion loaned by the EIB to UK enterprises to date in order to fund a board range of sectors including infrastructure.

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Good for you DD. It is NOT EU money it is taxpayers money.

..........
Actually, that is incorrect. It is a bit like me saying that the money Barclays lends to somone is my money because I have funds deposited at Barclays. Unless I am completely mistaken, that is not how banking works.

It is EIB money, to which the UK contributed a certain amount at the beginning and will get a certain amount back upon leaving. The funds loaned out belong to the EIB.

Last edited by mss; 6th June 2019 at 15:44..
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Old 6th June 2019, 16:10   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
This in my view could be considered a frivolous claim of the type often used in politics when facts cannot be disputed.

There are numerous other sources of the same information on the web - just do a search.



As a financial guru, you will no doubt agree that requiring a guarantor is common practice with loans, even EIB loans. So this is just sound commercial practice.



Not so. Would you be good enough to point to your source of this information?



I could point to the most definitive reference possible, but would really like to see the references to your claims above.

Also, we must not forget the £320m loan that the EIB gave to Jaguar Landrover during the same year for R&D into economical vehicles. Nor, indeed the circa £118billion loaned by the EIB to UK enterprises to date in order to fund a board range of sectors including infrastructure.



Actually, that is incorrect. It is a bit like me saying that the money Barclays lends to somone is my money because I have funds deposited at Barclays. Unless I am completely mistaken, that is not how banking works.

It is EIB money, to which the UK contributed a certain amount at the beginning and will get a certain amount back upon leaving. The funds loaned out belong to the EIB.
Hansard

Check it out
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Old 6th June 2019, 16:51   #155
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A bit like flying politicians across the globe for a climate change conference then.
That should read, a bit like having politicians at a climate change conference

It doesn't matter where lol they shouldn't be at them.

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Old 6th June 2019, 17:15   #156
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Hansard

Check it out
What's the betting Magna Carta was written by Disney.
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Old 6th June 2019, 17:58   #157
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What's the betting Magna Carta was written by Disney.


I wouldn’t mind Wraymond but the very source cited - Greencarcongress - actually quotes:-

“The U.K. Projects to be supported cover research and development for Fords commercial vehicles such as the Transit and Connect vans and the development of low carbon diesel and petrol engines”

It goes on to state:-

“The Dunton Site is one of four that will benefit from the investment. The others are Fords manufacturing plants in Dagenham, Southampton and Bridgend in South Wales”

I am sure that anyone with a modicum of common sense would realise that any government - of any colour - would apply clear parameters to any loan guarantee it provides - especially one of several hundreds of millions of £’s.

The guarantee was to be provided only if Ford provided an assurance regarding its plants remaining in the U.K.

Less than two years after the idea of this £420million loan was outlined by the U.K. government with the EIB in tow - Ford shut the Transit plant in Southampton with the aid of the £80m EIB loan and not surprisingly, the U.K. government withdrew the guarantee and this resulted in the loan never taking place.

One of the prime requirements for the loan to proceed was for the moneys (in part) to be used to modernise and develop the Transit plant in Eastleigh STN.

It was a genuine shock to all that the EIB backtracked on their commitment and lent Ford £80m to move the Transit Factory out of the U.K., and out of the EU

And a few years after that - the EIB lent Ford a further £150million to develop a new engine plant in Turkey.

The management of Ford Southampton stated at the time that the Bridgend plant would be next.....

Last edited by Darcydog; 6th June 2019 at 18:00..
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Old 6th June 2019, 19:28   #158
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Anyway all this is merely arranging deck chairs on the deck whilst admiring the incoming Icebergs.

FOREIGN INDUSTRIAL "INVESTMENT" IN THE UK:~

Proof positive that whilst attracting foreign investment for UK based Industry with massive taxpayer inducements was a good idea quick-fix at the time, longer term is means the death of UK indigenous Industry. With the emphasis on indigenous.

Until such time as UK taxpayer funds in any form of inducement are channelled to genuine UK owned projects and supported by the rest of us, just like other Nations do so very successfully, stand by for further economic problems ... Oh yes, forget all that. Lets blame those who did not know what they voted for three years ago. Like what dumbo me done did.... init.

Sorted.
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Old 6th June 2019, 22:01   #159
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Hansard

Check it out

Please - would you be good enough to provide link to the specific statements that you reference?
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Old 6th June 2019, 22:04   #160
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Anyway all this is merely arranging deck chairs on the deck whilst admiring the incoming Icebergs.

FOREIGN INDUSTRIAL "INVESTMENT" IN THE UK:~

Proof positive that whilst attracting foreign investment for UK based Industry with massive taxpayer inducements was a good idea quick-fix at the time, longer term is means the death of UK indigenous Industry. With the emphasis on indigenous.

...........

This we agree on, as we have done many times in the past.
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