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Old 8th March 2019, 20:20   #41
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murderers should hang- not a fashionable statement and I know there are all sorts of exceptions can be put forward but prison neither deters or makes offenders better people. Those who are horrified by the thought of hanging someone until they are dead might think on the terror and pain and degradation that many murder victims experience, in some cases for, hours, days even weeks. Imprisoned murderers are released and some commit second murders, not all but some. So our high principles have sacrificed another innocent man child, girl, or women who got up that morning and expected to see another day. They didn't and don't because we/society/government played risk management with their lives. This is not the mark of a civilised society. That is all. Chris.S.
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Old 8th March 2019, 20:27   #42
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Can anybody think up some kind of incentive to make prisoners want to do something that benefits society ??
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Old 8th March 2019, 20:27   #43
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I'm not sure it's lateral thinking, but take that thought to the next obvious question?
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Old 9th March 2019, 14:47   #44
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There have been several references to the cost to the tax payer.

What if the guilty had to "work" to pay off their "debt" and that included every minute of Police time, the cost of forensics etc., the admin to bring them to Court, all the costs of the judicial system and their own "board and lodge" whilst in prison.

Cost to the taxpayer - NIL. The "sentence" is ON TOP of the "costs" to the taxpayer.

No "work" equals no money equals absolutely bare bones food and shelter and nothing else.

I'm afraid I struggle with the concept that someone who is capable of committing crime is incapable of work.

If the crime is the result of, say, drug addiction then they receive rehab and then pay off their debt.

If every crime reported had a 99.9% chance of bringing the guilty into the Judicial system and that system handed out penalties that were substantial how much of a deterrent would that be?

Andy.
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Old 9th March 2019, 16:16   #45
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Quote:
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There have been several references to the cost to the tax payer.

What if the guilty had to "work" to pay off their "debt" and that included every minute of Police time, the cost of forensics etc., the admin to bring them to Court, all the costs of the judicial system and their own "board and lodge" whilst in prison.

Cost to the taxpayer - NIL. The "sentence" is ON TOP of the "costs" to the taxpayer.

No "work" equals no money equals absolutely bare bones food and shelter and nothing else.

I'm afraid I struggle with the concept that someone who is capable of committing crime is incapable of work.

If the crime is the result of, say, drug addiction then they receive rehab and then pay off their debt.

If every crime reported had a 99.9% chance of bringing the guilty into the Judicial system and that system handed out penalties that were substantial how much of a deterrent would that be?

Andy.

Probably not much of a deterrent to some, they'd probably live their whole life and never pay the money back. Then there's the idea that once your out of prison the slate is wiped clean.

Plus you'd have a system incentivised to lock up more and more people. Not too sure about that working.
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Old 9th March 2019, 20:23   #46
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Probably not much of a deterrent to some, they'd probably live their whole life and never pay the money back. Then there's the idea that once your out of prison the slate is wiped clean.
Plus you'd have a system incentivised to lock up more and more people. Not too sure about that working.
How many would choose to spend their life on an absolutely basic food and shelter regime? That means exactly that. Nothing except food and shelter. It would be the guilty person's choice about whether to work and have better conditions, or not. Pretty much how the rest of society works - if you want nicer things then you work to earn enough to pay for them.

Why would the slate be wiped clean?

Yes, there is an argument that the system is incencitised to lock up more people but the basic pillars of evidence and justice still apply. But the evidence would now be extensive as it would not be restricted due to lack of Police etc. officers to do the investigating nor limited in forensics due to cost.

Andy.

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Old 9th March 2019, 21:29   #47
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there was an article in one of the papers last year when a thief broke a window to rob a house the occupants herd him and whilst he was escaping through the same window he gashed his leg open .the thief took them to court and . he got compensation from the owners for loss of earnings .... hows that work for justice rgds mark
And I could well believe in today's world that the loss of earnings he got compensation for was from his burglaries, just imagine him in court saying "if I hadn't cut my leg your honour I would have done another 3 burglaries by now so I reckon I am down by about £1000 and I have mouths to feed"
On another note Gary Harding from Welshpool was a killer of 2 women in a massage parlour in Shrewsbury for the grand total of just under £400, having used a hammer to bludgeon them both to death, he eventually confessed to his mom and she told him to give himself up so off he went to Welshpool Police station to find it shut and he gave himself up via the intercom connected to a call centre !
My daughter lives on the outskirts of Birmingham and there are many car thefts in the area so all the residents are paying £2 per week which is enough to pay for a security patrol.
How Mrs May has the gall to stand in parliament and say more money is being given to the police force yet ignores the reduction in numbers is less then honourable but let's face it being an MP is no longer honourable for most of the current lot in parliament, and don't get me started on failing Grayling
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Old 10th March 2019, 07:46   #48
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How Mrs May has the gall to stand in parliament and say more money is being given to the police force yet ignores the reduction in numbers is less then honourable but let's face it being an MP is no longer honourable for most of the current lot in parliament, and don't get me started on failing Grayling[/QUOTE]

Don't be concerned about the PM, the end of March could be the end of May.
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Old 10th March 2019, 10:01   #49
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Aren't politicians supposed to be fine upstanding pillars of society with morals, honesty and integrity???

So these people are the role models for our youngsters......

No wonder we're in such a big pile of trouble .

Andy.
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Old 10th March 2019, 11:09   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN01 View Post
How many would choose to spend their life on an absolutely basic food and shelter regime? That means exactly that. Nothing except food and shelter. It would be the guilty person's choice about whether to work and have better conditions, or not. Pretty much how the rest of society works - if you want nicer things then you work to earn enough to pay for them.

Why would the slate be wiped clean?

Yes, there is an argument that the system is incencitised to lock up more people but the basic pillars of evidence and justice still apply. But the evidence would now be extensive as it would not be restricted due to lack of Police etc. officers to do the investigating nor limited in forensics due to cost.

Andy.
Well they'd have to pay a lot of money back, £30k per year to lock someone up for a year plus other costs. You could end up with a 6 figure bill they have to pay off, so it's not really a choice they've got.


At some point a country says your debt (not financial ) is paid.

A nice idea, but a system set up to bill people for their own investigation etc is open to abuse regardless of DNA.
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