Automatic gearbox flushing experience

[robwijnstok]

Last Friday I have had my automatic gearbox flushed.

Previous gearbox oil change was on 29-10-2007 at 100000km at an ex MG Rover dealer with Texaco JF403.
Gearbox flush last Friday was done at 150000km with Eurol ATF1100 in total 10,5 liters. Consumed time was 75 minutes, including a test drive.


The principle of a flush is to remove the old oil and add new oil until the new oil is coming out of the gearbox.

What is done…
- Car on a lift (ramp?)
- Removed the air filter housing.
- Removed the automatic gear box filler rubber on top of the gearbox.
- In the filler hole they put a short pipe with a flange so that it can’t go in too deep. On this pipe is a small funnel.
- Removed engine cover under the engine.
- Taken the oil hose careful lose from the automatic gearbox oil cooler.
- Put a piece of hose on the oil cooler outlet (otherwise the oil will get as far as 1,5 meter under the car on the floor). Put a container under the hose to catch the old oil.
- Let someone start the car (this was my job) and the old oil is pouring out on tick over until they could see air bubbles in the old oil. When they did, an immediate engine stop was done. They let the car down on the floor, filled the gearbox almost completely, lift the car again, and let me start the engine again. This was done three times, and after that there was only new oil pushed out of the gearbox.
- After that the normal travel through the gears was done.
- Then the original hose was fitted on the cooler again, and the maximum oil level plug was removed to let the excess oil out to that level.
- Both plugs were put back, and air filter housing was fitted again.
- The underside of the gearbox and oil cooler area were cleaned, and job done.
- Then I had to take a short drive of approx 10km and come back again on the car lift for inspection of any leakage, and there was none.
After this, the under engine cover was put in place again, and I paid and went home.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++

The gearbox oil what is used was Eurol ATF1100, and not Texaco JF403. When this firm (who did the flush) is overhauling an automatic gearbox for a Rover 75 also the Eurol ATF1100 oil is used, and they have done many without any complaints. This oil has a better spec then the original JF403 from Texaco. I have phoned Eurol oil laboratory in Holland before my appointment for the flush, and I was assured that ATF1100 is indeed the right oil for my gearbox. Eurol also told me that a gearbox oil flush is much better than the normal gearbox oil change because there is almost no pollution of the new oil by the old oil.
Unlike the procedure of Rover that the automatic gearbox should be filled on an gearbox temperature of 35degr. Celsius, the firm who did the flush did not do this. When flushing or when filling a automatic gearbox after an overhaul gearboxes are always filled at ambient temperature. The oil will expand if it’s getting on it’s working temperature, but I was promised that that would be no problem at all.


When I called transmission experts, there are not many who can do an automatic gearbox flush here in Holland. And those who can like to be a bit mysterious about the procedure. For instance being present at the procedure is not done, and if you can, taking pictures is not allowed. All transmission experts who I have spoken to told me the Jatco gearbox can be filled with another oil as long as the replacement oil is at least the same spec or higher than the original. Most normal driven automatic gearboxes with problems are caused mainly by NOT refreshing the gearbox oil on time. Gearbox change intervals should be between 80000km for a new gearbox, and 50000km when the gearbox has done 150000km or more to be safe. No need to change the gearbox oil what is written in some manuals of car brands is just a marketing issue.
Not one specialist has told me different.

Down to earth it is not all that high tech as I expected, but very effective! If you have a ramp or car lift to put the car on it could be a DIY job if you want. The big advantage of a flush is that all the old oil is replaced instead of just 55%.

This post is only intended to share my experience of flushing an automatic gearbox. NOT to start the discussion about gearbox oil again! The decision to do a gearbox flush is that I want the best for my car, this is also the reason why another (in my opinion better) oil was used. I have done 150km after the flush now and the gear changing is some smoother than before.

I hope this post will help others to make their own choice what to do when the gearbox is due for a service.

Rob.

[James.uk]

I had the automatic gearbox oil changed last year, it was done at a local autobox specialists and took about 90 mins.

The next day I took it into my usual local garage and informed them, they asked why I didn't take it to them? I pointed out that they had said many times that they "don't touch auto boxes" to which they replied they meant, they don't attempt to repair them, but are perfectly capable of doing an oil change on one.. dohhhh...

I then told them about the oil temp having to be monitored etc and they said that was rubbish! They told me they have done dozens of Jatco boxes and always do it at ambient temperatures, they also told me it takes a lot less than 90 mins!

So next time I will let them do it and will (A) know it's been done properly. (B) Know they wont overcharge for time.. (C) wont have so long to wait to get my car back! ..
.

[capese21]

Very interesting thread. It's amazing that they have more knowledge of the Rover 75 Automatic gearbox than the original designers. I wonder how they know? It always makes total sense to use a different ATF than that which the gearbox was designed for even though the reccomended ATF is still available very sensible! Still nothing like playing Russian Roulette with your gearbox to make ones driving experiance more relaxing.

The best way to flush the Rover automatic gearbox is change the fluid twice with 500 miles or so between them.

Good luck. Ed.

[robwijnstok]

Originally Posted by capese21

Very interesting thread. It's amazing that they have more knowledge of the Rover 75 Automatic gearbox than the original designers. I wonder how they know? It always makes total sense to use a different ATF than that which the gearbox was designed for even though the reccomended ATF is still available very sensible! Still nothing like playing Russian Roulette with your gearbox to make ones driving experiance more relaxing.

The best way to flush the Rover automatic gearbox is change the fluid twice with 500 miles or so between them.

Good luck. Ed.

I don’t think that these transmission specialists have more knowledge than Jatco. What they do have is lots of experience in repairing Jatco auto gearboxes from 1999 till today. The transmission specialists know exactly what the weak and strong points in this Jatco design are, they are technical not recognised as very good I’m afraid. They also service, repair and overhaul other brands of gearboxes, and are in that way able to compare, so in my opinion this explains why they call themselves Specialists. The later developed Jatco auto gearboxes are in some ways very different and better in design compared to the ones that have been fitted in our cars.

I am in the opinion that the minimum you can do is change your auto gearbox oil at least in the interval that Rover has in the Service sheets.
Better is to do a double oil change after a short interval, but there is still contamination of new oil by the old oil.
I have tried to do even better for my car by a real flush, by pushing the old oil out with new oil and reduce the contamination to a minimum.

Bottom line is, all members have to make up their own minds;
At what interval in miles or kilometres the gearbox of their beloved car is serviced.
What oil should be used at such a service.

Most important is that the auto gearbox IS serviced.

After my own research I have learned that the service for an auto gearbox is important enough to share it on the forum as an eye opener for those members who never gave it any thought.

[kaiser]

What you have left out is the most important part, in my view. Did you notice any difference??
As to the quality of the box, I am not so sure that these boxes are not very good.
They certainly are far from modern! and they lack a lot of sexy modern options etc. But in my book, a good box (or engine, or car etc) is one that does a predictable job without fuss.
I think these boxes largely do that, and I, for one, am thankful I have an automatic, compared to a manual.
After this has been said, my Toyota Cresida 3 liter Auto box, is faster, smoother and (I think,) saps less power. It also has a very useful feature, an electric overdrive, which you manually can select via a button on the gearshift. You can thus shift down without having to floor the throttle, which is an absolute pleasure.
Come to think of it, the box in my 40 year old Rover P5B is also smoother, faster ......
By golly, I think I better get the transmission oil changed myself!!!

[James.uk]

.>>>Did you notice any difference??<<<

No, I can't say I did.. But at least the oil is newer!
..

[robwijnstok]

Originally Posted by kaiser

What you have left out is the most important part, in my view. Did you notice any difference??
As to the quality of the box, I am not so sure that these boxes are not very good.
They certainly are far from modern! and they lack a lot of sexy modern options etc. But in my book, a good box (or engine, or car etc) is one that does a predictable job without fuss.
I think these boxes largely do that, and I, for one, am thankful I have an automatic, compared to a manual.
After this has been said, my Toyota Cresida 3 liter Auto box, is faster, smoother and (I think,) saps less power. It also has a very useful feature, an electric overdrive, which you manually can select via a button on the gearshift. You can thus shift down without having to floor the throttle, which is an absolute pleasure.
Come to think of it, the box in my 40 year old Rover P5B is also smoother, faster ......
By golly, I think I better get the transmission oil changed myself!!!

After the flush the gearbox seems a bit more smooth, but not very much. Also changing gears seems to be a bit more accurate or quicker if you like.
For my piece of mind I am happy that the oil is changed, and from now on every 50K a flush will be done.

“Not very good” was literally what three specialists told me.

Before I let someone work on the gearbox of my 75 I do some research. I have spoken to several specialists, and I have been asking what was the best to do when an autobox what has done 150K kilometers, and oil change was done 50K kilometers ago. What oil they would use (not one mentioned Texaco by the way) and how they would change it, if they can do a flush etc. Not one told me that Jatco is bad, but at the time (1999) this was not the best design is the common conclusion. There have been some modifications, and there is still an issue with a pin what can split. Even the newer thicker pin (in the overhaul kit) is known to split sometimes I learned last Friday. “Nothing to worry about, but if it happens you will know” I was told. Also the (forgot the name) drum is known for being damaged/worn on the inside. But perhaps this is common for other brands autoboxes too, I am not a specialist as you know.

I agree with you that our automatic gearboxes are far from modern, the design is more over 10 years old and in today’s technique that is a very long time. A couple of weeks ago I have driven the brand new Volvo 2.4 diesel V70 from my boss. The Volvo is not even close to the beautiful design and style of our 75 and ZT’s, but the autobox is a dream! There you feel (you feel absolution nothing!) the way a modern box is shifting gears, very very smooth. But even if my boss would like to swap his car with my 2003 75 I would not think of it, no way! In 2009 I have experienced a ride with a Mercedes Ml63 AMG 6 liter V8 with 7 speed autobox from a friend of someone I know. Acceleration like a F16 Fighter, but no gear change you can notice, and nice tiptronic of course.

The JF506E autobox is also used in Jaguar S type, Ford, VW, Mazda, Nissan etc. In some cases only the fitting to the engine and software is different, and on the VW also the solenoids are different, but the basis of the JF506E is more or less the same. I have seen the original overhaul manual at the former transmission specialist who did all the gearbox guarantee issues for Rover Holland. It is about 7 centimeters thick and covers the other variants also.

[capese21]

I had a look at the spec for the Eurol ATF1100 and it does say it is compatible where JF7045E fluid is specified.

I am happy to eat a slice of humble pie as this is the first time I have ever seen this actually stated in print by a manufacturer.

The thing for me is though does it offer any advantage of using the Rover XPART JF7045 fluid which is still easy to obtain?

I am not aware that the Eurol ATF1100 is available in the UK anyway.

For me as long as the Rover fluid is available then I will stick with it.

Caltex Texamatic 7045E is available and Castrol in the USA also make a suitable product.

Now going off to eat the pie.

Ed.

[James.uk]

No need for the pie really, we all go off the information available, and unless we read or otherwise find something different we stick with our beliefs, that's just common sense. The trick is to be prepared to change your views when the evidence indicates you should.

Overal the Jatco box seems up to the job, it's just a shame that the manufacturers give so little info that we can understand, as that contributes to making them so hard to diagnose, and fix.. Bit like your Dr really, they look worried, take a sharp and noisy inward breath, and tell you nothing! ..

Personaly I love my 75, it's a lovely car, I am not blind though, and I really wish it was a lot more reliable!

Whilst the car I have now has been more or less trouble free, my first one was an absolute nightmare, by far the worst car I ever had, it must have been built on a Sunday morning, and the Jatco gearbox in that car was built by drug addicts on LSD, and it haunts me still!

I doubt they ever got the car back on the road, but if they did, look out for SA51 XWJ White CDT Conny auto... Last known owner is a garage in Wyke (Yorks) If you ever see it, RUN! avoid it like the plague!! lol...
..

[kaiser]

I have a strong suspicion, and that is that the manufacturers often specify something just for the sake of specifying something they earn money on.
If the public is unthinking, or illiterate or plain slow, then they have to pay for that privilege!
I was always taught to think and to question anything, and I do.
It is sometimes not easy to see through a lot of what you are served today, but in that case common sense must prevail (although not always right!).
Why?, in this case would a Jatco box, because it is installed in a Rover, need something special at twice or thrice the price, yet a Jatco box installed in a Nissan, can do with a normal modern auto oil?????
Does not make sense to me.