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Old 20th July 2020, 09:54   #11
Yorkshire GOC
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As you have a later car i would certainly investigate fuel filter syndrome as T-Cut suggests - if you don't have a fuel filter clip fitted on later cars the fuel filter (under driver side rear passenger seat) can separate - leading at the start to intermittent starting as the filter begins to part then when the filter separates completely non starting. The fix is called the fabled orange clip (FOC) - which costs less than a fiver - it basically prevents the filter separating. A cheap fix and worth investigating.
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Old 21st July 2020, 09:25   #12
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Thanks Yorkshire GOC, Apologies, I didn't see your post (it was on page 2!). The techs are working on the car today and I'll get back with what they find. Fingers crossed they find the problem. Still not sure how to do a 'thankyou'.
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Old 23rd October 2020, 12:56   #13
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After having the fuel pump, fuel filter, all the plugs, and a couple of coils replaced the engine is now starting, however for about thirty seconds after start the engine runs roughly, then clears to run normally. I've been advised that the coolant system is over-pressurising which is causing water to wet the plugs after shutdown, hence the rough running after startup. The system is also losing coolant (200 mls per day). This (apparently) means a damaged head gasket (the second after 83,000 kms). So the solution is another gasket(s) replacement.

Thinking back, the engine suffered a leaking water thermostat housing about 6 months after the first top end overhaul. The overtemp only lasted about 30 seconds until I pulled over and shut down. And after replacing with a Kaiser housing I thought nothing more of it. But clearly, 30 seconds was enough to cause serious damage, which manifested itself about a year after the mod.

Anyway, for the sake of completion I'll post the result of the repair.

Thankyou all for your assistance and advice.

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Old 23rd October 2020, 14:53   #14
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The system is also losing coolant (200 mls per day). This (apparently) means a damaged head gasket (the second after 83,000 kms). So the solution is another gasket(s) replacement.
It means that you have a coolant leak. Do you see clouds of white "smoke" (water vapour) from the exhaust after first starting the engine?
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Thinking back, the engine suffered a leaking water thermostat housing about 6 months after the first top end overhaul.
The leak results from flattened 'O' rings caused by movement because the straight pipe plastic clips have not been set correctly.
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But clearly, 30 seconds was enough to cause serious damage ...
I'm afraid that's an incorrect assumption. It takes a lot of abuse to cause a KV6 MLS gasket to fail.

You say that the garage renewed the fuel filter. Did they fit a complete new assembly? Does it have a clip fitted?

Has the garage performed any tests to verify the claimed overpressurised cooling system and cylinder misfiring? Is there any mixing of oil and coolant?

Simon
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Old 24th October 2020, 00:01   #15
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Thanks Simon, yes it's mystified me also. It seems just too much that I've done another gasket so quickly. I wish I was knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions at the right time! Anyway, the fuel filter was replaced, and with a new clip. I bought two of those from Rover Discounts in England and provided one to be fitted, which they say they did. The fuel pump included the whole assembly with the fuel quantity transmitter.

As for testing, the car is going into the garage in a fortnight and I'm expecting an answer shortly thereafter. They've said they'll do a test (can't remember the name of it), which I understand checks the compression. But they're pretty sure a gasket has blown again, even though there is no smoke. I actually asked that; 'why aren't there more symptoms?' And they said a gasket can be damaged without other indications or loss of power. But that the pressurized water (and water loss) is enough to indicate that.

Oh yes, I forgot, the carbon monoxide test was negative. But again, they said that doesn't necessarily mean all is OK with the gasket.

I suppose both have to be replaced, even if only one is blown. Would that be correct?

Thanks again.
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Old 24th October 2020, 08:37   #16
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Bought my current V6 from an owner for spares or repair as the garage having changed thermostat, radiator, and fan - said the only thing left causing the overheat/expulsion of coolant had to be the headgaskets even though there was no CO in the coolant. I got a very cheap car with one year old belts etc and next day solved what was a very stubborn airlock - it just needed a good burp.
Would have thought it more likely that any lose of coolant or water in the cylinder(s) was the result of failed paper inlet gaskets.
The car had repeated overheated while used by the previous owner, as the garage said after each operation that it was fixed, overheated twice on my way home despite minus 12c but is now completely reliable. Not quite the same issues as yours but trying to highlight, what was in my case, the garage's incorrect assumption that the problem was headgasket related.
Any lucky contacting forum member Genpk - a fellow owner/long term member might have more idea than this garage you are using.

Regards
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Old 24th October 2020, 09:07   #17
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... and next day solved what was a very stubborn airlock .... trying to highlight, what was in my case, the garage's incorrect assumption that the problem was headgasket related.

Thanks for this Mike.
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Anyway, the fuel filter was replaced, and with a new clip.
OK. Did the garage open the housing to fit a new filter element, then closed it again and secured with the clip or was the complete filter assembly renewed?
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But that the pressurized water (and water loss) is enough to indicate that.
Please tell us more about this pressurised water Lewis. Is it being ejected out of the expansion tank cap?
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I suppose both have to be replaced, even if only one is blown. Would that be correct?
No, that's incorrect.
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... the carbon monoxide test was negative. But again, they said that doesn't necessarily mean all is OK with the gasket.
So your garage is claiming that combustion gases are pressurising the cooling system and injecting coolant into a cylinder (or cylinders) yet there is no carbon monoxide in the coolant?

I'm sorry to say this Lewis but your garage appears to have guessed at a diagnosis (head gasket failure) then is desperately trying to find reasons to confirm it. The problem is that those reasons are eluding them.

I fear that you are about to waste another chunk of money after the fuel pump and sparking plugs which I suspect were perfectly ok.

Simon
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Old 24th October 2020, 23:25   #18
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Thanks both for the advice ...

In turn .. to question 1 ... I pretty sure they fitted the new filter element, then closed it again and secured with the clip. But I'll check with them when we return from our touring holiday in South West WA (now using a hire car!!)

Question 2. The garage said that after I drove it to the shop the radiator cap was excessively difficult to remove. When they did get it off there was a clear loss of water and the overflow tank was empty. About one liter was required to fill. I'd only driven about 30 kms max since I'd checked the water before. The next day with a stone cold engine I started it at home and the (refilled) radiator immediately started pushing the water out at a low, but noticeable rate (a fast dribble). I don't really know what that means but it seemed to confirm the diagnosis. Before I refilled it the water was about 2 cm below the fins.

Thanks on the number of gaskets to be replaced.

Question 3. Yes, that is what they are saying. There is no CO2, but water is getting in.

"I fear that you are about to waste another chunk of money" - God I hope not! When we return I'll question them further with reference to all the above. It's so weird, when the engine is up and running she really purrs happily with plenty of power, but I'm rather worried about it blowing up on me on a distant country road. But at least it's starting again.

Hi Vitesse, I'll try contacting forum member Genpk again. Thanks ...

Thanks again both ..
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Old 25th October 2020, 08:56   #19
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Thanks for your helpful and clear replies Lewis.
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... I pretty sure they fitted the new filter element, then closed it again and secured with the clip.
If that turns out to be the case then please note T-Cut's advice. He has had personal experience of doing this and reports that it's very easy to unintentionally distort the seal between the two parts of the filter housing when reassembling. Should this happen, the result is unreliable fuel pressure which could well be the reason why you have erratic running.
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The next day with a stone cold engine I started it at home and the (refilled) radiator immediately started pushing the water out at a low, but noticeable rate (a fast dribble). I don't really know what that means but it seemed to confirm the diagnosis.
I disagree. The same thing happens if you have an air lock* but first ....
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Before I refilled it the water was about 2 cm below the fins.
Don't use the fins as a reference. The correct level is between the MIN and MAX labels at the bottom of the expansion tank. If the MAX label is covered with coolant then the tank is overfilled and is likely to eject coolant. Check this as a priority.
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Question 3. Yes, that is what they are saying. There is no CO2, but water is getting in.
You originally said carbon monoxide but no matter! As I said in my last reply, your garage is making the common mistake of starting with a diagnosis then trying to make the evidence fit it. When a piece of evidence doesn't confirm their belief (the gas test and absence of white "smoke") they dismiss it. That is not the way to discover what is really wrong and repair it in a cost effective way.

By the way, is this the same Land Rover dealer referred to at the beginning of the thread?

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... when the engine is up and running she really purrs happily with plenty of power ...

That's what your garage should be thinking!

Simon

* MGR's procedure for preventing air locks.
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Old 27th October 2020, 22:22   #20
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As Simon says above, if there is no contamination (co2) then staying with that report, it says to me that there can not be a leak from combustion into the water ways in the head. Have you looked around the filler cap for a pinkish colour? If there is some there I suggest you purchase a new radiator cap, and then see if you are still losing water. Also, have you checked to see if the radiator core is leaking from age related damage? The garage could be right, but hhmmm.
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