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Old 27th May 2017, 13:28   #41
MSS
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Yes, it would seem to be fairly easy until that is you realise that until fairly recently there was one undisputed ''respected expert'' in a particular field. Allegations that THEIR work has been below standard to put it mildly are the inspiration for all these debates.

Self regulation doesn't work.

Moderation by people who are friends of the people in question doesn't work.

The ONLY way any ''panel'' could independently review a complaint would be if reebs annonimised it first - that's not particularly realistic either.

So, you have to rely on those who wear the white hats being able to do so without fear or favour - not sure I'd want that responsibility any more than they do.

Don't forget, this is a litigious society, consumer rights have never been stonger or easier to enforce, and taking someone to county court has never been as hassle free or as cheap - something this thread has reminded me. I actually think I'm going to spend my thirty quid bringing our respected trader to court - others should do the same.
I agree.

The only system in which I would have confidence is if the club offered the facility for independent arbitration in accordance with professional standards for arbitration. I would guess that to achieve this, the subscription would need to rise by £25+ for each member (or £35+ for non-subscribing members) in order to cover the costs of appointing a professional arbitrator and associated insurance etc.

I really do not think that our car-enthusiast mods should be expected to become experts in mediation and arbitration. If we did, we would get different sorts of individuals as mods.

The club and forum are primarily about MGR cars and not trading. Let's keep it that way.

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........

Don't forget, this is a litigious society, consumer rights have never been stonger or easier to enforce, and taking someone to county court has never been as hassle free or as cheap - something this thread has reminded me. I actually think I'm going to spend my thirty quid bringing our respected trader to court - others should do the same.
Hmm...out of curiosity, would that be the trader who was highly respected until a few weeks ago and is no longer highly respected by some as a result of posts by another highly respected trader, or the second highly respected trader? No need to answer my curiosity.

Last edited by MSS; 27th May 2017 at 13:34..
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Old 27th May 2017, 13:48   #42
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The club and forum are primarily about MGR cars and not trading. Let's keep it that way.
Interesting point there Marinder, however other car clubs I have been involved with have schemes set up by the club themselves to source difficult to find/obsolete parts etc.

There is no such scheme in place here, slightly off topic as it may be, but in the mean time one should be able to place some faith in the trading members delivering a decent level of customer care when parts or services are rendered for monetary gain.

Let us say for sake of argument you need work carried out on your behalf, do you employ the services of someone who's primary interest are like your own, in the preservation of the marque, or take pot luck elsewhere?

It is a veritable minefield, I am lucky in many respects that I am reasonably self sufficient in most areas, but many other enthusiasts cannot for various reasons carry out some aspects of car maintenance that may be required as our cars age.

Personally speaking, the rendering of a job well done, and more importantly done well, far outstrips any importance placed upon fiscal reward

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Old 27th May 2017, 13:50   #43
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Bad product and service can happen to all, as mentioned previously, it is how the matter is dealt with to resolve is he key.

I recently ordered a rather insignificant and unimportant piece from a trader recommended from here on eBay. They sent the wrong one. But once made aware, they replaced it. A mistake was made, and subsequently corrected beyond my expectations. (Which is why I sent the PayPal payment for the second item, and THEN left feedback)

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Old 27th May 2017, 15:17   #44
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Interesting point there Marinder, however other car clubs I have been involved with have schemes set up by the club themselves to source difficult to find/obsolete parts etc.

There is no such scheme in place here, slightly off topic as it may be, but in the mean time one should be able to place some faith in the trading members delivering a decent level of customer care when parts or services are rendered for monetary gain.

Let us say for sake of argument you need work carried out on your behalf, do you employ the services of someone who's primary interest are like your own, in the preservation of the marque, or take pot luck elsewhere?

It is a veritable minefield, I am lucky in many respects that I am reasonably self sufficient in most areas, but many other enthusiasts cannot for various reasons carry out some aspects of car maintenance that may be required as our cars age.

Personally speaking, the rendering of a job well done, and more importantly done well, far outstrips any importance placed upon fiscal reward

Brian
I don't disagree with most of your points Brian, however my concern is that any feeedback or trader verification system administered by the club is going to be based on short-term "value for money" considerations as opposed to quality of workmanship. I suspect that it will actually cloud matters for the real enthusiasts - both as owners and professionals.

The reason for the above viewpoint is that, based on my own observations of which traders get the most accodates from members, I would only trust the judgement of some 25% of the membership. This is not intended to be rude to the memebrship, but I believe that only about 25% of the current owners could be described as true enthusiasts - the rest are owners where value or cost is the most important consideration.

As an example, one supplier that often gets bad press on the forum in Rimmers becasue of their perceived postage charges. Yet, in my eyes, that company contributes more to the long-term viability of our cars than any other parts supplier.

I do admire your passion and clarity of thought, even though we do not always agree on everything.
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Old 27th May 2017, 15:37   #45
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Perhaps only paying for Trader goods or services via PayPal Goods/Services is the only way of ensuring you're covered if things go wrong.
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Old 27th May 2017, 16:17   #46
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Slagging people off is not a Percieved Professional.

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Old 27th May 2017, 16:45   #47
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As a new member of only three years I would like to say that we are very fortunate to have so many members who have skills that we will all need at some time or other. I would like to thank Andy Squire (Shiner), Mat (DMGRs) and Phil T4 who have all contributed in keeping my car in the condition that it is and for that, I thank them all very much.
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Old 27th May 2017, 16:58   #48
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The Question here is quite a broad one, it covers a few points and has raised a few more. A trader as described here is a loose term, it covers goods for sale and/or work done. I might one day become a `trader` myself, selling goods or my services. If I did go down that route, I'd put myself up for any comments, good or bad, this is in the full knowledge that even good guys have bad days and things go wrong. I could buy a new car and it be a total Lemon, made brand new by a factory that made hundreds on the same day. My point is this, we can offer opinions on good work or bad, it has to be fair and unbiased to be worth taking on board as a balanced view. As I said, the good guys can have a bad day but, if they do they will put it right without quibble. The people that `trade` but are knowingly ripping people off are the ones we want to avoid and, there's been a few in my time here. If you find someone selling goods and services here, rely on what you believe to be the truth said about them, it's as simple as that and it's your own choice in the end.
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Old 27th May 2017, 17:27   #49
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Are there any sites similar to 'checkatrade' or 'ratedpeople', where when traders sign up to become traders, they must also create some kind of profile on a 3rd party site, unrelated to the forum. (I appreciate the above mentioned sites, may require payment - I havent looked into them, just mentioning them as examples). In their profile, they must also link to the profile on the review site.
It is well known that most of these sites are happy to let anyone join, providing they pay. Paying to join, offers no judgement on quality of the work done.
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Old 28th May 2017, 09:41   #50
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As an example, one supplier that often gets bad press on the forum in Rimmers becasue of their perceived postage charges. Yet, in my eyes, that company contributes more to the long-term viability of our cars than any other parts supplier.
This is a brilliant example, I'm on a few forums and Rimmer's do tend to get bad press for postage. I use them a lot and have never felt the postage was too high and their customer service is second to none
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