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Old 30th May 2017, 23:29   #41
Bolin
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Ah that's good to know - many years ago I ran an A-series (with cast iron block) for 30 seconds from stone cold with no coolant as my Dad said it would be OK for that long, and it was.

Just more more worried about about an aluminum engine - does the 20 seconds still apply as safe if the engine was at full working temperature?

i.e. you park at full working temperature, hose fails as you stop, dumping all your coolant without you knowing, and you then re-start only a couple of mins later having just popped out to a cash machine?

I suppose it must be safe, as this very scenario happened to me, and the first I knew was when the overheat message came on at 120 degrees C. Engine was fine, although the temp sensor did get killed in the process.
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Old 31st May 2017, 08:39   #42
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Gary I love this mod. This is one that everyone should have!.I have just tried to google this sensor (your link brings up an error), could you tell me where to get it from before they run out .
Must thank you for doing this write up (is it in the How To`s Mod`s)
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Old 1st June 2017, 15:10   #43
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Top work Lovel
I have been working on a coolant level sensor for a while now but kept having issues with consistent float material quality and with poor health I have set the project aside I think what you have achieved particularly with the ipk is fantastic
I would add my observations/experiences for your information and some comments on my build and reasoning for any future development (which I hope you do not require )
The grade of plastic the header is made of seems to suffer with star fractures from the edge of a drilling, you have fitted it in the thickest location which as you correctly surmised was where Rover intended to fit a level float of the same principal as the washer bottle. I can only guess that they tried this but found that the magnetic field deteriorated over time and stopped throwing the reed switch this happens with heat which destroys a standard magnets properties over time I found using samarium cobalt magnets designed for high temperatures was the way forward
I has also occurred to me that the fractures may be as a result of having to tighten the float switch substantially in order to obtain an effective seal with hard fibre washers hopefully alleviated with your silicone washers
The OAT antifreeze may also have a contributory factor in weakening the plastic it certainly has detrimental effects on the inlet manifolds of the k series but this tends to be a softening
Joining the "lid" back on could be achieved well with a rubber gasket or rtf silicone bead allowed to cure before joining together and small clamps fabricated for the purpose but wouldn't look very attractive or if you're convinced drilling doesn't cause an issue then small nut and bolt sets around the perimeter channel would be very effective
I really hope your version works well with good longevity and fully recognize the amount of work that has gone into the research
Please don't feel any of the above is a criticism it is just a pooling of resources and I hope in some small way useful
Regards
Al
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:47   #44
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Brilliant work, Gary.
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:55   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Evil View Post
Top work Lovel
I have been working on a coolant level sensor for a while now but kept having issues with consistent float material quality and with poor health I have set the project aside I think what you have achieved particularly with the ipk is fantastic
I would add my observations/experiences for your information and some comments on my build and reasoning for any future development (which I hope you do not require )
The grade of plastic the header is made of seems to suffer with star fractures from the edge of a drilling, you have fitted it in the thickest location which as you correctly surmised was where Rover intended to fit a level float of the same principal as the washer bottle. I can only guess that they tried this but found that the magnetic field deteriorated over time and stopped throwing the reed switch this happens with heat which destroys a standard magnets properties over time I found using samarium cobalt magnets designed for high temperatures was the way forward
I has also occurred to me that the fractures may be as a result of having to tighten the float switch substantially in order to obtain an effective seal with hard fibre washers hopefully alleviated with your silicone washers
The OAT antifreeze may also have a contributory factor in weakening the plastic it certainly has detrimental effects on the inlet manifolds of the k series but this tends to be a softening
Joining the "lid" back on could be achieved well with a rubber gasket or rtf silicone bead allowed to cure before joining together and small clamps fabricated for the purpose but wouldn't look very attractive or if you're convinced drilling doesn't cause an issue then small nut and bolt sets around the perimeter channel would be very effective
I really hope your version works well with good longevity and fully recognize the amount of work that has gone into the research
Please don't feel any of the above is a criticism it is just a pooling of resources and I hope in some small way useful
Regards
Al
All good points raised and noted, I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the longevity test. However knowing the relatively short life some of the cooling system components have (especially the turbo model coolant hoses) I'm sure this sensor will outlast them, proving its worth in perhaps saving the engine.

My initial aim was to utilise the black tank with the sensor moulding already there, but as we all know already the float is missing inside. I took a black tank apart to see if this could be done, however it would have been impossible to fit the float if I could indeed find one that would fit.

Some pics below show the black tank innards.

My second bit of investigation was then to open up a beige tank as the sensor could not be fitted internally without some melting of the baffle plate.
I then bonded the tanks with glue, the beige tank was also backed up with with really strong U-clips. Both tanks have been pressure tested to 30psi, however not a temperature. The final version I decided to not open up the tank top and was able to fit the sensor from inside although fitting it externally seems to work well too, although I think the seal has a hard time compared to fitting internally
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Schematic PPD Black Tank.JPG (35.4 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0733.jpg (132.5 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0734.jpg (130.0 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0738.jpg (118.8 KB, 80 views)

Last edited by Lovel; 1st June 2017 at 21:01..
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:59   #46
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Following on from above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovel View Post
My second bit of investigation was then to open up a beige tank as the sensor could not be fitted internally without some melting of the baffle plate.
I then bonded the tanks with glue, the beige tank was also backed up with with really strong U-clips. Both tanks have been pressure tested to 30psi, however not a temperature. The final version I decided to not open up the tank top and was able to fit the sensor from inside although fitting it externally seems to work well too, although I think the seal has a hard time compared to fitting internally
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0722.jpg (127.9 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0723.jpg (127.6 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0724.jpg (129.8 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0725.jpg (124.8 KB, 74 views)
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Old 2nd June 2017, 10:56   #47
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Thanks for all the work you've done
I've just received the sensor. I was planning to do the mod on my black expansion tank but now that you've uploaded some more photos, it seems more reasonable to use the original beige one not to have to open it up.
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TO DO: Tilt sensor, low coolant sensor, FBH GSM remote control, heated washer jets, front parking sensors
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Old 2nd June 2017, 15:47   #48
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I think you are right in thinking that the less you molest the tank the better it was my reasoning for developing a float which sat inside the header tank directly below the cap and acted on an external reed switch when low level occurred but for the space available its a strong heavy magnet that has a small operational footprint and depth of coolant it requires a very buoyant float and a guide tube for precision location on the reed switch
My prototypes work flawlessly with some plastic foam board I had kicking about the workshop but subsequent ones purchased have not had the same buoyant properties or stick in the guide tube occasionally which is unacceptable as it must work 100% in order to be a fit and forget component
I am still drawn to the float switch fitted through the base as you have done being the most infallible means of providing the switching process if only there was some way of guaranteeing non failure of the plastic moulding (sorry I'm sort of having ideas whilst I type ) I still feel that the OAT antifreeze is playing a part it the unreliability of holes through the body and am thinking of following your excellent method with the revision of changing the coolant to either glycol which I currently run or waterless which although expensive appears to be very inert and trialing long-term with a spare header and coolant in the boot just in case as you correctly said you at least will have a dashboard warning if it does leak or suddenly drop
It certainly is a subject that has baffled many brains over the years and obviously defeated Rover otherwise they would have fitted it (they always ment to fit a system otherwise it wouldn't have provision on the ipk or warning lamp) it would be great to get some feedback from the r & d team to find out why it was never implemented and it certainly wasn't from cost issues as the original team had no budgetary constraints in the initial years
I hope for the sake of the MGR community we can come up with an answer to a desperately needed function lets face it there would have been a lot fewer hgf on the k series if one had been fitted from the factory
Ps thats a very good how to you have written Gary and all credit in sharing it without a thought of charges :bowdown
Regards
Al
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Old 3rd June 2017, 16:47   #49
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Just completed install of a sensor on my diesel tourer this afternoon, and to put things into perspective.

A loss of 120ml coolant is all that it takes to trigger from the HIGH mark.
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File Type: jpg 120cc.jpg (131.6 KB, 75 views)
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Old 7th June 2017, 16:06   #50
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Regarding the comment made above ragarding "staring" the hole when drilled. If you can machine the hole using an end mill cutter, the hole is clean and there is not a ridge inside the tank at this point. (I still have the inner skin as cut away and it is quite flat)

The sensor "info" says a 16.5mm hole, however the sensor body is 15.5mm at the base of the threads, so I have machined a 15.8mm hole and it fits nicely
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