EU vote?

[bobthebuilder]

Of course the government should have, and publicise, it's position on whether it thinks the nation should stay in or out. This is the most important decision that will probably be made in a generation.

The problem is, that as it is so split up the middle, the Tory party was not able to state a position at the last election and so it doesn't really have a mandate to say 'In', and so snakes like Gove and Johnson are free to say 'Out'. If you disagree with what they've done, feel free to vote them out next time

[wraymond]

I would hope and expect any responsible government to hold a view of what they think is best for the country. They should also back that view with adequate data and tell the public what and why they think what they do.

Unfortunately the record is less than encouraging when all sources of information they use are in receipt of government funds or EU funds. That wouldn't be so bad if the level of trust was otherwise reasonable.

Critically, time and again the government has not only been hopelessly wrong with predicting economic performance but also downright untrustworthy in many other areas of commercial, legal and social affairs. The credibility gap, or rather chasm, is a result of downright lies and dumb deceit across their whole range of responsibility. It's not surprising there is conflict and mistrust, they lack what they have the nerve to call themselves - honourable.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by Lancpudn

I posted my postal vote this morning with a cross in the "OUT" box.

Mine arrived this morning too, and was back in the post within the hour with an X in the OUT box as well. I was in such a rush to get it back in the post, I initially missed putting the signed slip in the outer envelope, I just caught it in time with the seal still moist enough to re-open it.

[rab60bit]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

Of course the government should have, and publicise, it's position on whether it thinks the nation should stay in or out. This is the most important decision that will probably be made in a generation.

The problem is, that as it is so split up the middle, the Tory party was not able to state a position at the last election and so it doesn't really have a mandate to say 'In', and so snakes like Gove and Johnson are free to say 'Out'. If you disagree with what they've done, feel free to vote them out next time

Now now. Members of the Cabinet have the freedom to vote as they feel fit, likewise every other MP no matter what side they sit.
Likewise they should not be denigrated for wholeheartedly supporting a particular viewpoint. Just because they don't support the same position of our PM and Chancellor (amongst others) doesn't give Michael and Boris serpent status. I wouldn't dream of saying Call me Dave was a snidely turtle because he turned over on his shell, drew his head in and proceeded to deceive us once he returned victorious from his negotiations with J-C Junker and his mates.
Come on, fair is fair.

[barney bear]

I will be voting for sure and as previously stated I'll be voting out, purely because of the immigration issue. I'm not racist but a small island can only support X amount of people and in my opinion we are rapidly closing on that figure.

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by rab60bit

Now now. Members of the Cabinet have the freedom to vote as they feel fit, likewise every other MP no matter what side they sit.
Likewise they should not be denigrated for wholeheartedly supporting a particular viewpoint. Just because they don't support the same position of our PM and Chancellor (amongst others) doesn't give Michael and Boris serpent status. I wouldn't dream of saying Call me Dave was a snidely turtle because he turned over on his shell, drew his head in and proceeded to deceive us once he returned victorious from his negotiations with J-C Junker and his mates.
Come on, fair is fair.

With respect, you are rather missing the point. Because the government did not (and I think I'm correct on this) include 'staying in' as a manifesto pledge, people can complain that they have no mandate to state their 'in' position as they are doing now (at tax payers expense). They obviously did this as the party is totally divided over the issue.

By and large, I'm sure the politicians - and public - take the side they do out of conviction. Not Boris however..... otherwise he wouldn't have been saying in February how good the EU is or taken so long to decide which side he's actually on!!

He's taken a punt on 'Out' winning, Cameron's position being untenable and guess who then becomes PM. Not somebody anyone voted for, that's for sure.

And talking of anti-democratic, when are those accusing the EU of being as much going to object to the House of Lords?

[Gman2]

Drove down the M6 and had to laugh at the OUT campaign with "Vote leave and join the world". They love their sound bites but what's actually on the table - the UK going it alone in the world? Really? How many countries in the world are truly independent from their neighbours - I'll save you the time - none, zip, zilch. Even the big hitters like China and the USA are part of a regional trade gang and with that comes paying into the pot and / or negotiating concessions. So guess what - who are our closest chums - the EU and it's with them that we do the bulk of our trade! So why has the OUT campaign want to reject the Norway, Swiss and Iceland model - 'cos these countries still need to pay to be part of the EU gang but have no say at Brussels and still take the bulk of the legislation! Norway has to retain all the EU’s product standards, financial regulations and employment regulations. So if we leave it's likely that we'll have to re-negotiate some form of access to the EU and pay (albeit less) Brussels and still cop EU "red tape" and take a financial shock in the process. Oh I get it - we'll negotiate with rest of world and forget about the EU - so disregard what I've said above...

[wraymond]

I'm sure it won't have escaped anybody's notice that, after 40 years, all our goods and services, regulations and international standards are already EU friendly and in full compliance.

So, er , what renegotiations would be necessary? Or is that apparently huge and insurmountable hurdle in some small way irrelevant? In addition it won't have escaped anybody's attention that 'we' are far and away the most careful of the 27 nations to adhere strictly to the EU code, unlike the nearest and dearest of our neighbours, among others.

Now Bliar has piped up for the Remainders. Suicide or what?

[topman]

Originally Posted by wraymond

So, er , what renegotiations would be necessary?

There's questions over say the right to live and work, either uk citizens to live in the eu or eu citizens to live here. When coming to that sort of thing it's always a bit tricky

[Gman2]

....so where's the economic plan post BREXIT then