Diesel not starting

olliewarwick · 20th January 2018, 10:31

Hi Everyone,

I’m having an issue with my ZT diesel not starting.

History
The solenoid contacts have needed doing for a month or so, so this morning I replaced them. Followed the very helpful guide here

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=227316

Before doing the work the engine would only turn over on the 4th or 5th time of trying, now it turns over straight away. That part is great.

Unfortunately now it doesn’t actually start, almost as though it is immobilised.

When doing the work I noticed something curious. In the guide there is a small lead with a push connector attached to the starter motor, in the guide this has a black plastic shroud that almost looks ribbed with a Oem looking black cover, on mine that lead was not the one connected to my starter motor, the one connected to mine is definitely home made and goes into to the wiring loom near the battery.

What looks to be the original is hanging loose. I’ve taken two photos, one shows the wires on my car and the other shows where it enters the loom.

With the home made one plugged in it turns over but doesn’t start. With what looks to be the proper one plugged in, it doesn’t turn over.

Any guidance would be gratefully received.

One other thing I have noticed, might not be related is the ABS light seems to come on when it’s cranked, pretty sure this didn’t happen before. Might not be related.

I can hear the fuel pump and the oil light comes one when first turning ignition on (this didn’t when my ecu went for a swim)

Help
Ollie

Mike Noc · 20th January 2018, 16:49

Sadly I can't see the photos Ollie. It sounds like someone has bypassed the control cable for the starter motor. From the ignition switch this goes to the immobiliser and then down to the starter motor.

Given that what you have sounds like it is home made, or bodged, worth tracing out the cables to see exactly what has been done, and then we can work out the best way to rectify it.

olliewarwick · 21st January 2018, 06:21

Thanks Mike, that’s interesting. So that is to say that the immobiliser stops the starter from working? In which case that doesn’t sound like my problem, because the car does turn over.

I will trace the cable back, to find out where it goes.

rustymotor · 21st January 2018, 07:16

Hi, have you tried a battery disconnect reset? maybe something went awol during the work?

marinabrian · 21st January 2018, 16:38

The starter motor output is from the EWS (white wire with a red tracer) and connects to the starter motor via the four way plug inside the ECM housing, then onward to the lucar terminal on the starter.

The starter is inhibited if in the case of an automatic, the park or neutral signal is not seen, or in the case of both manual and automatic cars, a valid transponder is not seen in the ignition.

I would hazard a guess that the wire that has been fitted is part of some sort of bypass bodge, perhaps due to a faulty EWS, which of course if that has developed another fault, the ECM won't receive the necessary rolling code to allow it to start.

Impossible to say for definite without seeing the car though

Brian

olliewarwick · 22nd January 2018, 07:59

Hi Chaps,

Thanks for all your help.

As it happens a battery off and back on again resolved the issue. Sometimes you don't think of the simple things, so thank you for the suggestion.

Brian, thanks for your detail, this does help and you may recall that you did a bit of work on this side of things a couple of years back. You sent me a replacement EWS and ECM.

At some stage, this car has suffered water damage to the small grey box under the steering wheel (EWS I think), believe this houses the transponder gubbins. There is a wire coming out of the box through a drilled hole and connected to another wire that should be in the plug, the corresponding plug terminal has corroded away. I do mean to resolve this properly and solder a new section in and use the replacement EWS that Brian sent me.

Mine is an auto, but before taking the battery off yesterday it did turn over, so therefore wasn't immobilised, it just didn't start.

Either way, a battery off and on again solved it. I will however, find out where that wire from the starter actually goes to. There must be a reason why it has been replaced.

Brian, I would love for you to give my car the once over, but you're t'up norf and I'm in Surrey.

Thanks all, once again, if the family ever let me make a meet I'll owe you all a beer.

Regards,
Ollie

20th January 2018, 10:31	#1
olliewarwick Avid contributor MG ZT-T+ Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Guildford Posts: 143 Thanks: 8 Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts	Diesel not starting Hi Everyone, I’m having an issue with my ZT diesel not starting. History The solenoid contacts have needed doing for a month or so, so this morning I replaced them. Followed the very helpful guide here https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=227316 Before doing the work the engine would only turn over on the 4th or 5th time of trying, now it turns over straight away. That part is great. Unfortunately now it doesn’t actually start, almost as though it is immobilised. When doing the work I noticed something curious. In the guide there is a small lead with a push connector attached to the starter motor, in the guide this has a black plastic shroud that almost looks ribbed with a Oem looking black cover, on mine that lead was not the one connected to my starter motor, the one connected to mine is definitely home made and goes into to the wiring loom near the battery. What looks to be the original is hanging loose. I’ve taken two photos, one shows the wires on my car and the other shows where it enters the loom. With the home made one plugged in it turns over but doesn’t start. With what looks to be the proper one plugged in, it doesn’t turn over. Any guidance would be gratefully received. One other thing I have noticed, might not be related is the ABS light seems to come on when it’s cranked, pretty sure this didn’t happen before. Might not be related. I can hear the fuel pump and the oil light comes one when first turning ignition on (this didn’t when my ecu went for a swim) Help Ollie

21st January 2018, 07:16	#4
rustymotor Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: May 2017 Location: Hull Posts: 1,848 Thanks: 216 Thanked 432 Times in 340 Posts	Hi, have you tried a battery disconnect reset? maybe something went awol during the work? Last edited by rustymotor; 21st January 2018 at 07:19..

20th January 2018, 16:49	#2
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,547 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Sadly I can't see the photos Ollie. It sounds like someone has bypassed the control cable for the starter motor. From the ignition switch this goes to the immobiliser and then down to the starter motor. Given that what you have sounds like it is home made, or bodged, worth tracing out the cables to see exactly what has been done, and then we can work out the best way to rectify it.

21st January 2018, 06:21	#3
olliewarwick Avid contributor MG ZT-T+ Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Guildford Posts: 143 Thanks: 8 Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts	Thanks Mike, that’s interesting. So that is to say that the immobiliser stops the starter from working? In which case that doesn’t sound like my problem, because the car does turn over. I will trace the cable back, to find out where it goes.

21st January 2018, 16:38	#5
marinabrian MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 20,151 Thanks: 3,565 Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts	The starter motor output is from the EWS (white wire with a red tracer) and connects to the starter motor via the four way plug inside the ECM housing, then onward to the lucar terminal on the starter. The starter is inhibited if in the case of an automatic, the park or neutral signal is not seen, or in the case of both manual and automatic cars, a valid transponder is not seen in the ignition. I would hazard a guess that the wire that has been fitted is part of some sort of bypass bodge, perhaps due to a faulty EWS, which of course if that has developed another fault, the ECM won't receive the necessary rolling code to allow it to start. Impossible to say for definite without seeing the car though Brian

22nd January 2018, 07:59	#6
olliewarwick Avid contributor MG ZT-T+ Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Guildford Posts: 143 Thanks: 8 Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts	Hi Chaps, Thanks for all your help. As it happens a battery off and back on again resolved the issue. Sometimes you don't think of the simple things, so thank you for the suggestion. Brian, thanks for your detail, this does help and you may recall that you did a bit of work on this side of things a couple of years back. You sent me a replacement EWS and ECM. At some stage, this car has suffered water damage to the small grey box under the steering wheel (EWS I think), believe this houses the transponder gubbins. There is a wire coming out of the box through a drilled hole and connected to another wire that should be in the plug, the corresponding plug terminal has corroded away. I do mean to resolve this properly and solder a new section in and use the replacement EWS that Brian sent me. Mine is an auto, but before taking the battery off yesterday it did turn over, so therefore wasn't immobilised, it just didn't start. Either way, a battery off and on again solved it. I will however, find out where that wire from the starter actually goes to. There must be a reason why it has been replaced. Brian, I would love for you to give my car the once over, but you're t'up norf and I'm in Surrey. Thanks all, once again, if the family ever let me make a meet I'll owe you all a beer. Regards, Ollie