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17th May 2016, 10:36 | #1 | |
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Let's have an open discussion about all of them. They all need to pay if we are doing this to one member. |
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17th May 2016, 10:43 | #2 | |
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If you wish to name others who are doing the same that is entirely your prerogative Rich.
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Jeff. |
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17th May 2016, 11:28 | #3 |
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I have seen this once friendly club descend into bigotry and hatred over the past several months, but I think there may be a new low with the vehemence I have seen toward TOAF. The people who wrote TOAF plainly state that it was created for those areas in europe where T4 was not available, TOAF does not, and will never present a threat to T4 with the exception of a percieved loss of income to some people. Why on earth can't we all just see sense and get along, it is another diagnostic tool, when used in conjunction with T4 it enables us (the enthusiasts) to diagnose our cars more efficiently.
Personally I couldn't care less if they get suspended from this forum, there are others where they are treated with the respect they deserve and as friends not enemies, but I think it does highlight the problems and bias which in turn reflects very poorly on those who persist in their criticism. Whilst I also agree that anyone who is trading should pay their fees in order to create a level playing field, I also think this has to applied fairly and with a degree of common sense. What about Rovacom, Pscan or any one of the 100s of the scanners available at auction sites, are these percieved as a "threat" too, how far do you want to go? Every thread I have seen that even mentions TOAF has eventually becoming a slagging match between the people who support it and the people who don't and as a consequence the threads are closed. As previously stated healthy competition is good, pure hatred and nastiness isn't, surely we can all live and let live, or maybe we are not big enough, or open minded enough to do so. Finally don't even think of accussing me of being a fanboy one way or another, I have respect for ALL traders and authors of diagnostic software, this isn't about what's the best tool to use, it's about my right as an individual to make a free choice on a forum I like and enjoy.
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I am NOT a number, I am 75 Last edited by Vanbursta; 17th May 2016 at 11:39.. |
17th May 2016, 11:34 | #4 | |
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Hi. One reason I started this thread. http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=244918 Perhaps all the wrangling should be there instead!
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Cheers from Trevor MM0KJJ |
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17th May 2016, 10:44 | #5 |
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As in the private thread, there is no proof of anyone paying anything, the whole fiasco is a farse.
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17th May 2016, 10:57 | #6 | |
This is my second home
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I'm not getting involved in an argument with you as clearly we have differing opinions on the matter. You obviously seem to think the traders are part of this 'mystical cartel' who are protecting their own financial interests over and above the help and commitment of the members and our cars so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise .
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17th May 2016, 11:02 | #7 | |
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You aren't getting involved in an argument because you are wrong. I don't think there is a mystical cartel, you mentioned that. I do believe that if we are singling out individuals who should pay traders fees, you should man up, and whine about all of the people not paying, instead of hiding behind the other traders who agree in private and pick on one person. That is the actions of bullies. |
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17th May 2016, 11:12 | #8 | |
This is my second home
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Bully, man up, right oh If you want to chuck insults around be my guest !
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17th May 2016, 11:14 | #9 |
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I think this is crazy. The most likely thing that will kill off modern classics in a few years time is the complicated electronics and enthusiasts not being able to maintain them, projects like TOAF are essential if the 75/ZT's are going to survive long term. One of the big problems I had when I had the ZS and ZT-T was the lack of a local T4, this meant that repairing the ZS when it had an electrical fault was 100% pure guesswork and luck. Obviously since MGR went down the number of garages with working T4's has declined and discounting a bunch of idiots there are no T4 services local to me, so in that instance an alternative would have been awesome. The fact that they are prepared to put the time and effort into writing this software, which is no mean feat should be recognised and applauded and I think it's very counter productive to turn them away.
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17th May 2016, 11:15 | #10 | |
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If you aren't going to mention the other non paying traders, perhaps you should let this one go too. |
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