Weird knock. Is it an engine mount? Which one? - Page 2

EdgarDonaldBalls · 13th March 2019, 22:41

The bearing is a separate part to the top mount and it is usually the bearing that needs to be replaced but the mount it's self can also fail but I don't think this is anywhere near as common.

On my car the top mount it's self was in pretty good condition so I just needed to replace the bearings (along with the spring and dampers, got it all done in one go)

You can see the two parts on the DMGRS page here

LittleMan · 14th March 2019, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev Jules

Put the steering in a straight line, then try and push each wheel with your foot back ,

if any movement its the bush that is worn.

Rev

Tried to push the front wheels in all directions, but they’re steady as. Probably the wheel on the rear left moves much more than the front ones. Maybe that’s why the car pulls to the left

Indeed, I’m looking to get some parts from DMGRS (timing belt, etc), and I’m trying to see how big the list is.

So top mounts with bearings added to the list.
Anything special about replacing them? Or normal tools and jack stands are enough?

LittleMan · 25th April 2019, 20:26

To answer my own questions, yes, this operation is very special, and a real PITA.
0) It would be very useful to have an impact gun at hand: I’ve had an electric one, specified for up to 200Nm, it does the job farely well, and open the stubborn bolts for you in no time.
1) Good set of sockets, preferably impact type, to use with your impact gun.
2) A good set of spanners.
3) A hex bit size 6, with long extensions, or a long and sturdy size 6 allen key.
On top, you need a 13 socket for the 3 top mount bolts; an 18 socket for the middle nut on the damper; the nut has a size 6 hex in the middle; so you may use a long 18 ring spanner, plus a long size 6 hex key to open up the bolt, and retighten it.
On the bottom you need a sturdy flat head screwdriver, to pry up the brake line secure clip.
A small extension for your sockets (75 to 150mm), although you can do the job even without them.
A size 13, 14 and 15 for the bolts on the bottom, and an open end ring spanner, to hold the inside nut of the drop link.
4) Penetrant. This time, WD40 did it as a penetrant for me.
5) Spring compressors.
6) Hammer; preferably a real hammer, toy hammers won’t be good enough.
7) Hydraulic jack.

You start by taking out the bolts on the lower part, and realise the stupidity in design. The shock is fitted in the hub for at least 10cm, and than clamped with the metal in the hub it self.
You basically cannot take out the suspension assembly without being in a service, with elevator, and real hydraulic jacks.
There are youtube videos that show you that you need to remove the hub from the lower ball joint in the whishbone. Good luck with that. You will remove the screw holdting it in place (same way, of clamping the hub to it), but it will not fall off by itself. I used a hammer to try to lower it, to no avail. I wasn’t the first one to try this, as the whisbone was already very beaten up on the sides.

LittleMan · 26th April 2019, 01:10

I’ve got lucky on right hand side, as there was enough room to barely fit the spring compressors.
Remove the shock top nut with the suspension compressed, and than lower it; this is not enough to release the suspension shaft from the top hat.
Put the compressor springs on and compress as much as you can; try to put them simmetrically.
To compress the shock shaft put your 6mm hex bit in your long thin screwdriver and push down.
You will have enough space to remove the top hat through the back, after you remove the top 3 bolts.
Install is the reversal process.

Left side, I was not that lucky, as I couldn’t fit the spring compressors properly; I’ve tried with the wheel rotated...don’t do this, the spring will disalign and will be even harder to do and put back; you will not succeed on the left side with the suspension in place.

Watch for the rubber spacer rings that sits between the spring and the top hat. In general, it’s very probable to be cracked or broken. If you can find them, I would recommend to get those spacers together with the top hats.

To be fair, I do not recommend my method to anyone. You never know when a spring compressor might fail and you may badly hurt yourself forever, even die.
I spent about 7 to 8 hours doing this, tried all sorts of tricks, and couldn’t finish it. I’ve done suspensions before on heaps of japanese cars, and never had a single problem there; took suspension out fast and easy. I remember last time it took me 8 hours to change shocks and springs on a civic, including cutting old shocks, removing the guts, and fitting Koni shocks instead of the OEM ones.

It should be simple and easy: on a MacPherson suspension, remove the 3 bolts from the top, remove 2 big bolts on the bottom, done, struts are out.
But no, Rover must be more special, and have a single bolt on the bottom, and a very complicated way of fitting everything on and with the hub.
I stand by my statement, the design is flawed and the approach of interconnecting everything very bad.

My problem now is that I was able to compress the spring on the left a little bit, and I was able to see the top hat bearings and guts; that top hat is in pieces, it explains the big knocks I have at bumps. But no service want to touch it. When they see Rover, is like showing them a plague. To be fair, I would refuse as well.

13th March 2019, 22:41	#11
EdgarDonaldBalls Avid contributor MG ZT CDTi XPower Grey Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Chester Posts: 153 Thanks: 31 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	The bearing is a separate part to the top mount and it is usually the bearing that needs to be replaced but the mount it's self can also fail but I don't think this is anywhere near as common. On my car the top mount it's self was in pretty good condition so I just needed to replace the bearings (along with the spring and dampers, got it all done in one go) You can see the two parts on the DMGRS page here

25th April 2019, 20:26	#13
LittleMan Newbie 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Auckland Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	To answer my own questions, yes, this operation is very special, and a real PITA. 0) It would be very useful to have an impact gun at hand: I’ve had an electric one, specified for up to 200Nm, it does the job farely well, and open the stubborn bolts for you in no time. 1) Good set of sockets, preferably impact type, to use with your impact gun. 2) A good set of spanners. 3) A hex bit size 6, with long extensions, or a long and sturdy size 6 allen key. On top, you need a 13 socket for the 3 top mount bolts; an 18 socket for the middle nut on the damper; the nut has a size 6 hex in the middle; so you may use a long 18 ring spanner, plus a long size 6 hex key to open up the bolt, and retighten it. On the bottom you need a sturdy flat head screwdriver, to pry up the brake line secure clip. A small extension for your sockets (75 to 150mm), although you can do the job even without them. A size 13, 14 and 15 for the bolts on the bottom, and an open end ring spanner, to hold the inside nut of the drop link. 4) Penetrant. This time, WD40 did it as a penetrant for me. 5) Spring compressors. 6) Hammer; preferably a real hammer, toy hammers won’t be good enough. 7) Hydraulic jack. You start by taking out the bolts on the lower part, and realise the stupidity in design. The shock is fitted in the hub for at least 10cm, and than clamped with the metal in the hub it self. You basically cannot take out the suspension assembly without being in a service, with elevator, and real hydraulic jacks. There are youtube videos that show you that you need to remove the hub from the lower ball joint in the whishbone. Good luck with that. You will remove the screw holdting it in place (same way, of clamping the hub to it), but it will not fall off by itself. I used a hammer to try to lower it, to no avail. I wasn’t the first one to try this, as the whisbone was already very beaten up on the sides.

26th April 2019, 01:10	#14
LittleMan Newbie 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Auckland Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I’ve got lucky on right hand side, as there was enough room to barely fit the spring compressors. Remove the shock top nut with the suspension compressed, and than lower it; this is not enough to release the suspension shaft from the top hat. Put the compressor springs on and compress as much as you can; try to put them simmetrically. To compress the shock shaft put your 6mm hex bit in your long thin screwdriver and push down. You will have enough space to remove the top hat through the back, after you remove the top 3 bolts. Install is the reversal process. Left side, I was not that lucky, as I couldn’t fit the spring compressors properly; I’ve tried with the wheel rotated...don’t do this, the spring will disalign and will be even harder to do and put back; you will not succeed on the left side with the suspension in place. Watch for the rubber spacer rings that sits between the spring and the top hat. In general, it’s very probable to be cracked or broken. If you can find them, I would recommend to get those spacers together with the top hats. To be fair, I do not recommend my method to anyone. You never know when a spring compressor might fail and you may badly hurt yourself forever, even die. I spent about 7 to 8 hours doing this, tried all sorts of tricks, and couldn’t finish it. I’ve done suspensions before on heaps of japanese cars, and never had a single problem there; took suspension out fast and easy. I remember last time it took me 8 hours to change shocks and springs on a civic, including cutting old shocks, removing the guts, and fitting Koni shocks instead of the OEM ones. It should be simple and easy: on a MacPherson suspension, remove the 3 bolts from the top, remove 2 big bolts on the bottom, done, struts are out. But no, Rover must be more special, and have a single bolt on the bottom, and a very complicated way of fitting everything on and with the hub. I stand by my statement, the design is flawed and the approach of interconnecting everything very bad. My problem now is that I was able to compress the spring on the left a little bit, and I was able to see the top hat bearings and guts; that top hat is in pieces, it explains the big knocks I have at bumps. But no service want to touch it. When they see Rover, is like showing them a plague. To be fair, I would refuse as well.