Anyone's 1st on here

[peelaaa]

Why failing to indicate could see you fined thousands and lose your licence – even if there are no other cars

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/FUhYD

Sent via @updayUK

[BoroRover]

BMW drivers....a soft target if this was ever enforced.

[madeupname]

Very interesting.
One of my old workmates left us to become a driving instructor. I had noticed drivers not indicating had started to become more frequent so I asked him why this was happening. He said that they now teach drivers not to indicate if there's no reason to. ie, no other traffic.
I said I thought this was wrong because it gets new drivers into the habit of NOT indicating, instead of the habit OF indicating. He wasn't impressed.
I just wonder if these instructors will now be sued by drivers who have been fined for not indicating?

It's a long time since I last read the highway code, but I remember my instructor telling me not to indicate when pulling out of a parking spot, instead wait till there's no more cars coming and pull out and join the flow.
Now, I can kinda see some reason for this, as several times I have slowed down to let a car pull out from the kerbside, only to discover there's no driver in it and it's the hazards that are flashing
You don't notice that until you're almost at it's rear end.

[marinabrian]

Pah, typical V6 owner saving money on indicator bulbs, so they can spend it on thermostat housings



Brian

[AndyN01]

It's a while since I was involved in Advanced training but the first thing we'd discuss is Information - receiving it through vision/hearing and giving it through indicators/brake lights etc. (The rest was Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration "IPSGA").

So, if there's no one around to "give" the information to then using say, an indication when there's no one there was classed as a failure to receive (and process) information correctly. i.e acting by rote rather than by the situation. This point was agreed by a Police Examiner and would lose a candidate marks on their assessment.

Conversely failing to indicate when the was someone around to see it was similarly a failure to receive (and process) information and would lose a candidate marks on their assessment.

Serious concentration and skill these Police drivers/riders .

Andy

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

It's a while since I was involved in Advanced training but the first thing we'd discuss is Information - receiving it through vision/hearing and giving it through indicators/brake lights etc. (The rest was Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration "IPSGA").

So, if there's no one around to "give" the information to then using say, an indication when there's no one there was classed as a failure to receive (and process) information correctly. i.e acting by rote rather than by the situation. This point was agreed by a Police Examiner and would lose a candidate marks on their assessment.

Conversely failing to indicate when the was someone around to see it was similarly a failure to receive (and process) information and would lose a candidate marks on their assessment.

Serious concentration and skill these Police drivers/riders .

Andy

Andy, "you" assume there is no one to receive because "you" have not seen the person. It will take longer to study the area to make sure there is no one around. How far away does someone have to be to be classed as not around?

Advanced drivers are taught to read the road ahead. There is a car on the left side of the road, facing same direction as your travel some distance ahead with no lights on, you cant see any movement, you cant see any exhaust "smoke". You make a judgement.

Consider the judgement.

Now consider the judgement if you can see their right indicator flashing.

Is it exactly the same judgement?

I'm sure there will be two opinions on the subject, those in favour of always indicating which I am one and those that believe no point if no one around.

we will agree to differ, with me of course being right

macafee2

[AndyN01]

Originally Posted by macafee2

Andy, "you" assume there is no one to receive because "you" have not seen the person. It will take longer to study the area to make sure there is no one around. How far away does someone have to be to be classed as not around?

Advanced drivers are taught to read the road ahead. There is a car on the left side of the road, facing same direction as your travel some distance ahead with no lights on, you cant see any movement, you cant see any exhaust "smoke". You make a judgement.

Consider the judgement.

Now consider the judgement if you can see their right indicator flashing.

Is it exactly the same judgement?

I'm sure there will be two opinions on the subject, those in favour of always indicating which I am one and those that believe no point if no one around.

we will agree to differ, with me of course being right

macafee2

That's the whole point.

Advanced drivers/riders take information from as far away as possible in all directions.

Information covers everything that can be seen/heard and must then be processed into degrees of "what might reasonably happen" next.

In your first scenario it's reasonable to make a judgement that the car is parked.

So you're looking behind (hazard = mirror check - you might need an escape route) looking past it and planning your path around it.

Information - Parked car - probably. Anything behind you? What's on/in the road ahead - vehicles/junctions/school entrance etc. Anyone who you can give information to - Another road user? Indication?

Position - adjust to pass the car - giving as much space as possible just in case there's say, someone in the car you can't see who opens a door. Maybe there's an engine problem (which is why there's nothing from the exhaust) and the bonnet release is on the passenger's side so the driver is "lying" across the front seats to reach it and will almost certainly not do a mirror check before throwing their door open to get out to have a look.

Speed - depends upon oncoming traffic/space (brakes are for slowing, gears are for going).

Gear - depends upon any speed change.

Acceleration - if needed (arrive with grace, leave with pace) depends upon the......current/new Information.

Information changes split second by split second and the process is adjusted to suit.

Your second scenario is much more complex.

Think of the possibilities:

Indicating and just pulling off regardless (someone of the mindset that indicating gives them the right to just do it)?
Indicating and doing a U turn?
Indicating and have seen you and are waiting for you to pass?
And possibly several more.

How do you control your vehicle? Particularly considering an escape route, road position and speed????

Andy.

[Mgaz]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

It's a while since I was involved in Advanced training but the first thing we'd discuss is Information - receiving it through vision/hearing and giving it through indicators/brake lights etc. (The rest was Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration "IPSGA").

So, if there's no one around to "give" the information to then using say, an indication when there's no one there was classed as a failure to receive (and process) information correctly. i.e acting by rote rather than by the situation. This point was agreed by a Police Examiner and would lose a candidate marks on their assessment.

Conversely failing to indicate when the was someone around to see it was similarly a failure to receive (and process) information and would lose a candidate marks on their assessment.

Serious concentration and skill these Police drivers/riders .

Andy

I was at a busy cross roads that I have to cross on my way to and from work.

There was a young driver in a first car waiting for the all clear on the other side.

I wanted to go straight over so I was not indicating. Also the young driver on the other side was also not indicating.

My assumption therefore was that he also intended to go straight over as well.

I was wrong. I started to move forwards once the road was clear, and to my suprise, the young lad turned his right and went right in front of me!

We both stamped on the brakes and I let him get out of my way.

Now this may be down to inexperience , but if driving instructors are telling new drivers not to signal when leaving and entering junctions if there are no other cars about, then they aren't getting in the habit of using it when they DO need to use it.

Indecating always is a good habit to have imo. And we very well could have had an accident on that cross roads but luckily we did not.


My girlfriend is currently learning to drive and sometimes I really wonder what her instructor is teaching her.

She sits at the round about with one foot on the clutch and one on the foot brake and two hands on the wheel.


And when I tell her she should have one hand on the handbrake instead of the foot brake, she tells me that's how she's been taught.

And my honest opinion, her driving is messy when she does not use the handbrake, and risks the car rolling back as she comes off the foot brake and on to the gas.

But when she does it the way I was taught by my dad, it's almost perfect.

Go figure.


And I've also noticed an increase in awful hill starts by drivers these days with many cars rolling back before moving off. And I'm beginning to understand why. Lol

They just arent used to using the handbrake often enough!

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by Mgaz

I was wrong. I started to move forwards once the road was clear, and to my suprise, the young lad turned his right and went right in front of me!

We both stamped on the brakes and I let him get out of my way.


_Snip___



She sits at the round about with one foot on the clutch and one on the foot brake and two hands on the wheel.


And when I tell her she should have one hand on the handbrake instead of the foot brake, she tells me that's how she's been taught.

I agree, it is good to have a clue which way a driver is intending to go, so you can better plan your own driving to accommodate them.


Likewise, the use of the handbrake - it is there to be used and sorts out the more professional drivers from the rest. You see them waiting at the traffic lights, either rocking on the clutch, or with the footbrake on and brake lights lit. It only needs a moments distraction, when rocking it on the clutch and they have rolled back or forth into another vehicle. Not using the handbrake, makes for a much slower getaway when the time comes, than using the handbrake fully and many of them stall trying to juggle the pedals. There is no need to even fully apply the handbrake - if it is just a matter of seconds, then I just keep it pulled up with my arm, without it clicking. I always push the button in anyway, when applying it, to avoid the wear and rasping noise.

[bl52krz]

You have answered the question of why most newish drivers seem to have no idea why or when they should indicate, and also some supposed ‘experienced’ drivers are indicator blind. These idiots who say that if you can not see any traffic, or pedestrians, don’t indicate How stupid can that statement be? How about blind spots, or don’t they exist now?? How about the person who is as stupid as the person who proposed that statement? Tell you what. I don’t ‘see’ anything in front or behind, so I just pull out across three lanes of road to go into my drive, and crunch. Whose fault is it that the stupid driver behind me did not know where I was going and drove into the side of me? Well I did not ‘see’ him.The world had gone mad.