Brexit Negotiations to 2020

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Whichever way you look at Brexit in or out it looks like a total mess at the moment especially Trump has started a tariff war, where does this leave us with our ambition to trade worldwide..

Amongst many others Gordon, links available if required, I give you actual verbatim remarks and commentary from a huge, huge, market spokesman!

This from Toshimitsu Motegi, Japanese economy minister:

‘Tokyo would spare no efforts to support the UK’ in joining the 11 member group Trans-Pacific Partnership trade bloc. ‘I’d like to welcome your country’s expression of interest in acceding to the TPP. Your expression of interest is indeed a great encouragement to our efforts to attach importance to the free-trade system based on rules and to fight protectionism. Japan will not spare any effort to support the UK, including providing relevant information, and acting as an intermediary to you in relation to other TPP member countries’.

This is just one of many expressions of not just willingness but eagerness to negotiate trade deals with UK post B. These unreported meetings do not receive the exposure you might expect. They are of course confidential and, not least, outside the EU rules! I bet you won’t find it in the Guardian!

Surely it’s about time the supporters started to shout the truth and join in.

[Borg Warner]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Hilarious Andy! Remind me, who was it in the campaign, and names and citations would help, before the referendum that said that bit about, to use your inverted commas, “we’ll give the NHS £350million extra per week” and “don’t worry, we won’t run out of food or medicine etc, etc”?

By the way, “the lorry park that will be visible from space”, well done! On the 6 o’clock news just an hour ago there was a segment from a traffic helicopter (a BBC one as well!) showing that lorry park is there even now! Miles and miles and miles of it. Has it started already? No, wait a minute, it’s been like that since the tunnel opened! Perhaps it’s just the advance queue for next March 29! Oh no, it’s the empties going back for more exports to eager UK and (from Holyhead) to Irish markets!

The potential delays highlighted at Dover seem to ignore what will happen at Calais. Felixstowe, Britain's largest container port, is also ignored, so too is Rotterdam, Le Harve and Southampton. Delays over here will be mirrored over there. If such delays are going to happen why is it that every advert is for a Volvo, BMW, Audi or Renault. They seem to be fairly confident in our ability to continue to buy their products.

As for the potential of no flights over UK airspace, this would be catastrophic for the rest of the world, not just us and the continent. Remember what happened during the not too distant Icelandic volcano eruption? The recent comments by the Irish on this subject also beggars belief; especially as the RAF protect their airspace from those pesky Russians. Suppose they could always call on the Luftwaffe.

Except they only have 4 operational Typhoons. Oops.

[rustymotor]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Amongst many others Gordon, links available if required, I give you actual verbatim remarks and commentary from a huge, huge, market spokesman!

This from Toshimitsu Motegi, Japanese economy minister:

‘Tokyo would spare no efforts to support the UK’ in joining the 11 member group Trans-Pacific Partnership trade bloc. ‘I’d like to welcome your country’s expression of interest in acceding to the TPP. Your expression of interest is indeed a great encouragement to our efforts to attach importance to the free-trade system based on rules and to fight protectionism. Japan will not spare any effort to support the UK, including providing relevant information, and acting as an intermediary to you in relation to other TPP member countries’.

This is just one of many expressions of not just willingness but eagerness to negotiate trade deals with UK post B. These unreported meetings do not receive the exposure you might expect. They are of course confidential and, not least, outside the EU rules! I bet you won’t find it in the Guardian!

Surely it’s about time the supporters started to shout the truth and join in.

Well Ray I guess they buy quite a bit of scotch whiskey, used Levi jeans and what else do we send over to Japan..though they say have a German car job in USA and Japanese wife then you will have arrived I recall trips to Tokyo and Osaka and seeing plenty of homeless people living around train stations in would could be described as top quality card board boxes, and twice in one trip was told "Yank go home".

Joking apart, I do hope we can stand up after the wrench away from the EU, I always thought for years we were putting too many eggs in one basket trade wise so to speak..

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

The potential delays highlighted at Dover seem to ignore what will happen at Calais. Felixstowe, Britain's largest container port, is also ignored, so too is Rotterdam, Le Harve and Southampton. Delays over here will be mirrored over there. If such delays are going to happen why is it that every advert is for a Volvo, BMW, Audi or Renault. They seem to be fairly confident in our ability to continue to buy their products.

As for the potential of no flights over UK airspace, this would be catastrophic for the rest of the world, not just us and the continent. Remember what happened during the not too distant Icelandic volcano eruption? The recent comments by the Irish on this subject also beggars belief; especially as the RAF protect their airspace from those pesky Russians. Suppose they could always call on the Luftwaffe.

Except they only have 4 operational Typhoons. Oops.

You are right of course Gary. Leo Varadka’s rather silly threat to prevent UK flights through Republic air space embarrassed a lot of people. Including himself. Particularly those concerned with International agreements regarding air traffic. It’s beyond his control or influence and absolutely nothing to do with EU matters. His view of world affairs seems parochial to say the least.

And - more local situations: For instance, and I know opinions from this side of the sea are controversial, I wonder if he is aware that the question of a ‘border’ is moot?

It’s a trumped up (no pun intended) Joker of no import. With UK out, the question of a border is a problem for the EU – not UK! Any border would have to be paid for, responsible for, constructed and maintained by EU together with Ireland. We are not required to post officials there, it’s for the EU to police it. We are not keeping them out, they are doing that! That is, if they want to go there. There are thousands of miles of borders around the EU with little or no problems, why not now?

I’m not saying we can’t work together, but to offload the problem to UK as a ploy in a game is just wrong. If we could get away from this self-defeating negative view of absolutely everything and adopt a cooperative position, everybody could win without the bickering.

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Well Ray I guess they buy quite a bit of scotch whiskey, used Levi jeans and what else do we send over to Japan..though they say have a German car job in USA and Japanese wife then you will have arrived I recall trips to Tokyo and Osaka and seeing plenty of homeless people living around train stations in would could be described as top quality card board boxes, and twice in one trip was told "Yank go home".

Joking apart, I do hope we can stand up after the wrench away from the EU, I always thought for years we were putting too many eggs in one basket trade wise so to speak..

I presume you mean those worn out/road-kill jeans that folks think are cool. Be great if Japan bought every single pair available. Then burned them.

I've no doubt the future is rosy, it's the birth pains in getting there that's causing the problems. That's the trouble with a yes/no binary - you'll never please everyone by definition. The hard part is weeding out the misquotes, lies and half truths. Good luck.

[Stevie25]

Originally Posted by wraymond

You are right of course Gary. Leo Varadka’s rather silly threat to prevent UK flights through Republic air space embarrassed a lot of people. Including himself. Particularly those concerned with International agreements regarding air traffic. It’s beyond his control or influence and absolutely nothing to do with EU matters. His view of world affairs seems parochial to say the least.

And - more local situations: For instance, and I know opinions from this side of the sea are controversial, I wonder if he is aware that the question of a ‘border’ is moot?

It’s a trumped up (no pun intended) Joker of no import. With UK out, the question of a border is a problem for the EU – not UK! Any border would have to be paid for, responsible for, constructed and maintained by EU together with Ireland. We are not required to post officials there, it’s for the EU to police it. We are not keeping them out, they are doing that! That is, if they want to go there. There are thousands of miles of borders around the EU with little or no problems, why not now?

I’m not saying we can’t work together, but to offload the problem to UK as a ploy in a game is just wrong. If we could get away from this self-defeating negative view of absolutely everything and adopt a cooperative position, everybody could win without the bickering.

Oh dear, the NI/ROI Border issue is the ‘inconvenience truth’ that leavers just can’t handle or get their head around.
Since it was the UK that decided to leave the EU and not the other way round, then the Government (already acknowledged by TM) has the bigger responsibility to find an acceptable solution.

[wraymond]

Again I'm afraid you are denigrating leave voters unnecessarily. Probably best not to insult them with allegations of limited intelligence! Good natured banter is fine but there is a limit! Unless of course you mean me. That doesn't matter, I can take it!

Acceptable to whom Stephen? Proposals have now been rejected twice by Barnier! It won't take much longer to unravel completely, he can only bluff for so long. Don't forget, nothing's agreed until everything is! What do you think happens on the borders all across Eastern Europe?

Agreement could be reached but when you are faced with a belligerent and intransigent so-called negotiator (er, exactly what has he negotiated?) sometimes you have be firm. We all know they are stubbornly refusing to bend in the hope of dissuading similar moves by other members. That fear is tangible and we certainly don't want to exacerbate that but we do have our own interests to consider.

By the way, still waiting for the answer to the question in post 71.
Good here, isn't it?

[andymc]

Oh dear - more reading required, wraymond. The UK government is a signatory to the Belfast Agreement, aka the Good Friday Agreement, an international treaty which is registered with the UN. I know you don't like my suggestions for reading material, so perhaps a simple wikipedia link will help to clarify things for you a little.

Because the Good Friday Agreement binds the British government on several points of law in Northern Ireland, it has de facto become a part of Constitution of the United Kingdom. Legal commentator David Allen Green described it as "a core constitutional text of the UK, and of Ireland [...] of more everyday importance than hallowed instruments such as, say, Magna Carta of 1215 or the 1689 Bill of Rights".[29]

Your assertion that the problem of the border is "moot", a "Joker of no import", and "a problem for the EU, not the UK!" displays either a profound ignorance - i.e. lack of knowledge/understanding - of anything to do with Northern Ireland, or an arrogance concerning your fellow UK citizens. In a spirit of kindness, I hope it is the former.

On Boris - I did not, as you wilfully assert, accuse Boris of lying in my previous post. However I have no difficulty in referring to him as a liar - he was sacked from the Times for making up a quote, and sacked by Michael Howard for lying about an affair. It is a matter of public record that the man is indeed a liar.

[Stevie25]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Again I'm afraid you are denigrating leave voters unnecessarily. Probably best not to insult them with allegations of limited intelligence! Good natured banter is fine but there is a limit! Unless of course you mean me. That doesn't matter, I can take it!

Acceptable to whom Stephen? Proposals have now been rejected twice by Barnier! It won't take much longer to unravel completely, he can only bluff for so long. Don't forget, nothing's agreed until everything is! What do you think happens on the borders all across Eastern Europe?

Agreement could be reached but when you are faced with a belligerent and intransigent so-called negotiator (er, exactly what has he negotiated?) sometimes you have be firm. We all know they are stubbornly refusing to bend in the hope of dissuading similar moves by other members. That fear is tangible and we certainly don't want to exacerbate that but we do have our own interests to consider.

By the way, still waiting for the answer to the question in post 71.
Good here, isn't it?

Well, I was referring to the limit intelligence of people like JRM, and those who Hold hard Brexit views.
I have been called a remoaner many times on this forum, but did not respond.

Ah yes, answer to post 71:
Check out the following about Boris - seems very clear to me.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/boris-...stimate-2018-1

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by andymc

Oh dear - more reading required, wraymond. The UK government is a signatory to the Belfast Agreement, aka the Good Friday Agreement, an international treaty which is registered with the UN. I know you don't like my suggestions for reading material, so perhaps a simple wikipedia link will help to clarify things for you a little.

Because the Good Friday Agreement binds the British government on several points of law in Northern Ireland, it has de facto become a part of Constitution of the United Kingdom. Legal commentator David Allen Green described it as "a core constitutional text of the UK, and of Ireland [...] of more everyday importance than hallowed instruments such as, say, Magna Carta of 1215 or the 1689 Bill of Rights".[29]

Your assertion that the problem of the border is "moot", a "Joker of no import", and "a problem for the EU, not the UK!" displays either a profound ignorance - i.e. lack of knowledge/understanding - of anything to do with Northern Ireland, or an arrogance concerning your fellow UK citizens. In a spirit of kindness, I hope it is the former.

On Boris - I did not, as you wilfully assert, accuse Boris of lying in my previous post. However I have no difficulty in referring to him as a liar - he was sacked from the Times for making up a quote, and sacked by Michael Howard for lying about an affair. It is a matter of public record that the man is indeed a liar.

Thanks for that. I was of course aware of the agreement and not only of its importance but was in support of it.

Your second paragraph is really quite rude and unnecessary. Calling another profoundly ignorant or arrogant may be accepted in other internet places but on here? Thought we were better than that. However, that is typical of the divide I guess.

The point remains: the responsibility for border control following departure falls jointly (UK-EU) and is not in the gift of the UK parliament. As far as I am aware, the EU has given no indication of its intentions in that regard but they have plenty to say about UK tardiness.

BJ: Context is everything. We were talking about the 'bus’ and specifically what you said he said. You used speech marks which everywhere else in the world indicates what was actually said, word for word.

Your remarks were a deliberate rephrasing of what he said in attempt to give a false impression and your strong implication was that he was lying in order to win an argument. It’s there to be seen.

As I asked then, give details of him saying what you said he said, or withdraw! Offering second hand reports of similar phoney tricks from avowed critics of his just doesn’t do it!

I'm no friend of the man, his attitude annoys me, but the truth is the truth.