KV6 190 - Upgrades?? - Page 5

minimutly · 31st July 2016, 22:38

Big ends breaking up are a modern phenomenon, it rarely used to happen, but i have seen it on supposedly utltra reliable diesels.
If the oil pump were the problem, surely the signs would be scored/blued bearings?
The narrow bearing is another modern v6 thing, not sure what the competition use, but i'de be suprised if any were much wider, the zt is ultra narrow between the struts though.
For tuning, especially low boost turbo/supercharging a decent bearing material and an oil cooler should suffice - but it does depend on how much oil the turbo would require. And then, is there room for either of these? Yes I know the Aussies supercharged the v6, but heck how much clutter do you want? If the inlet manifold wasn't such a pile of poo, the battery somewhere else, it would be possible to fit a smallish turbo in that space.
But lets be realistic here, how many people have done this? I'm more inclined to tweek the cam timing and see where that takes me - salad dodger, werent you making some verniers for the back timing pulleys, or have I got you mixed with someone else? You are right about the poo exhaust manifold, but there is no cheap fix for it.

Salad-Dodger · 1st August 2016, 08:08

That big end was a bit more than "blue". The tabs on the shells stripped and the whole lot was turning inside the rod.
You are right about the inlet manifold. It would be a given thing to throw it away! It works with the viz system anyway and being an old NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-, I'd like to see something else on top of that engine other than a large lump of plastic!
I was in contact with a guy on here some time ago who was going to modify and use this engine in some kind of motorsport, and we did converse on the subject of getting a better timing system for the "slave" driving system. His idea was to put a sprocket on the exhaust cams and drive it all with one belt. he sent me some pictures as well, so he was serious! But he went away after a while and I've never heard of him since.

The thing about having vernier adjustment is that on a rolling road you can play with the valve timing to get the BHP up to its max at a given RPM. (a lot of work on a quad cam unit) He was going to go a long way into getting it to 300bhp which I thought at the time, was ambitious to say the least. He was going to use carbs after modding the inlet manifolds but it would have been totaly unworkable in an ordinary car.

There's a few other things about this engine that makes it an up-hill struggle to use for power. The water stat system is not the greatest. Its small and restrictive and the stat itself is of poor quallity. All you hear about on here are overheating issues, and this is on stock motors. The fan comes on at 100 degs and goes off at 95 if you are moving so this cycle is going on the whole time. I'd like the fan to come on a bit earlier and to be a bit more efective. A two-fan system would be better I think.
Really, I could go on for a long time on this and it would sound as if we were driving unreliable monsters but that is not the case. If they are serviced properley the V6 is a good unit that drives really well, which brings me back to my previous comment. If you want power to use on the public highway, buy a quicker car! Steve

Elliott · 1st August 2016, 09:40

Just maybe showing a bit of ignorance on the history of this engine but was the KV6 a development of the quad cam 2.7 Honda engine in the older 827 Rovers.

For grunt and torque which is realistically what most people really want as opposed to horsepower (that shove you in the back is torque not BHP) surely a re-bore at least to a max (normally a manufacturers limit) 0.60" overbore. And I bet there are bigger pistons available. Bigger bang, bigger torque. With a remap, an uprated flow and pressure oil pump with a bigger oil cooler and an electric water cooling system using electric pump and thermostat control, an engine with a lot more mid range will be available?

Neil1 · 1st August 2016, 11:02

After a bit of searching around the web I found that the Kia Sedona has the same engine and this has a metal inlet manifold.

I expect it's not that simple or maybe a possibility that it will fit but it should do, surely?

Found the information here; http://www.motor-car.co.uk/rover-eng...ver-kv6-engine

Coups · 1st August 2016, 14:43

Wasn't there a chap in the north of Scotland who was using a modified KV6 in a off-road rally buggy type car? I've definitely warn YouTube clips of it tearing around.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

minimutly · 1st August 2016, 17:08

No, the kv6 is not related to the ronda (twin cam) 2.7. It is a developement of the late rover 827 engine though (and probably the sedona), and that one did have an alloy inlet manifold.
I'm not on a downer on the inlet manifold as its used, just that it makes tuning difficult. Is it restrictive? i dont know, but it doesnt look it, and anyway, if it was, that would be at the top end, and my 190 goes all the way to the red line without issue.
The exhaust manifold is another matter though...
There is a 2litre autograss kv6 around, had a steel crank, cams, forged pistons.
Went very well, screamed its head off.

willshot · 1st August 2016, 17:34

Not sure if this helps but here is the KV6 racing engine in a MGZR. Andrew Morrison from Stirling ran it for a while in Darlington & District championship. I don't know the spec but it was a quick little so'n'so. Think it was 260 bhp.

Elliott · 1st August 2016, 17:45

Nice......... proper looking engine

minimutly · 1st August 2016, 17:51

Nice pic.
260 bhp puts it just over 100bhp per litre, not unusual for a 16v head, and not that high either. K18s get 260 bhp regularly, vauxhall red tops 280, ford bdg's 300 odd (but thats a race developed engine). I purposely haven't mentioned honda vtec engines, purely because vtec is a game changer cam timing wise.
So yes, 100bhp per litre in a road car should be doable, and it should have a decent share of mid range torque too.

ZedTeeTee · 1st August 2016, 18:28

A lot of the info in this thread is way over my head, but I'm really enjoying it nonetheless, what a brilliant example of what a thread should be, people exchanging knowledge and experience and generally just exploring the subject matter without any of the baggage that can creep in.

Kudos to all and keep it coming

1st August 2016, 09:40	#43
Elliott Loves to post Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sheerness Posts: 261 Thanks: 174 Thanked 61 Times in 50 Posts	Just maybe showing a bit of ignorance on the history of this engine but was the KV6 a development of the quad cam 2.7 Honda engine in the older 827 Rovers. For grunt and torque which is realistically what most people really want as opposed to horsepower (that shove you in the back is torque not BHP) surely a re-bore at least to a max (normally a manufacturers limit) 0.60" overbore. And I bet there are bigger pistons available. Bigger bang, bigger torque. With a remap, an uprated flow and pressure oil pump with a bigger oil cooler and an electric water cooling system using electric pump and thermostat control, an engine with a lot more mid range will be available? __________________ I would be so fast if I could only get going

1st August 2016, 11:02	#44
Neil1 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T CDTI Auto Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Newton Abbot Posts: 2,624 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 518 Times in 425 Posts	After a bit of searching around the web I found that the Kia Sedona has the same engine and this has a metal inlet manifold. I expect it's not that simple or maybe a possibility that it will fit but it should do, surely? Found the information here; http://www.motor-car.co.uk/rover-eng...ver-kv6-engine __________________ Rover 75 and MG ZT: The Complete Story Last edited by Neil1; 1st August 2016 at 11:04.. Reason: added a link

1st August 2016, 17:45	#48
Elliott Loves to post Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Sheerness Posts: 261 Thanks: 174 Thanked 61 Times in 50 Posts	Nice......... proper looking engine __________________ I would be so fast if I could only get going

31st July 2016, 22:38	#41
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Big ends breaking up are a modern phenomenon, it rarely used to happen, but i have seen it on supposedly utltra reliable diesels. If the oil pump were the problem, surely the signs would be scored/blued bearings? The narrow bearing is another modern v6 thing, not sure what the competition use, but i'de be suprised if any were much wider, the zt is ultra narrow between the struts though. For tuning, especially low boost turbo/supercharging a decent bearing material and an oil cooler should suffice - but it does depend on how much oil the turbo would require. And then, is there room for either of these? Yes I know the Aussies supercharged the v6, but heck how much clutter do you want? If the inlet manifold wasn't such a pile of poo, the battery somewhere else, it would be possible to fit a smallish turbo in that space. But lets be realistic here, how many people have done this? I'm more inclined to tweek the cam timing and see where that takes me - salad dodger, werent you making some verniers for the back timing pulleys, or have I got you mixed with someone else? You are right about the poo exhaust manifold, but there is no cheap fix for it.

1st August 2016, 08:08	#42
Salad-Dodger Gets stuck in MG ZT-T 190 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Chatham Posts: 592 Thanks: 34 Thanked 66 Times in 62 Posts	That big end was a bit more than "blue". The tabs on the shells stripped and the whole lot was turning inside the rod. You are right about the inlet manifold. It would be a given thing to throw it away! It works with the viz system anyway and being an old NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-, I'd like to see something else on top of that engine other than a large lump of plastic! I was in contact with a guy on here some time ago who was going to modify and use this engine in some kind of motorsport, and we did converse on the subject of getting a better timing system for the "slave" driving system. His idea was to put a sprocket on the exhaust cams and drive it all with one belt. he sent me some pictures as well, so he was serious! But he went away after a while and I've never heard of him since. The thing about having vernier adjustment is that on a rolling road you can play with the valve timing to get the BHP up to its max at a given RPM. (a lot of work on a quad cam unit) He was going to go a long way into getting it to 300bhp which I thought at the time, was ambitious to say the least. He was going to use carbs after modding the inlet manifolds but it would have been totaly unworkable in an ordinary car. There's a few other things about this engine that makes it an up-hill struggle to use for power. The water stat system is not the greatest. Its small and restrictive and the stat itself is of poor quallity. All you hear about on here are overheating issues, and this is on stock motors. The fan comes on at 100 degs and goes off at 95 if you are moving so this cycle is going on the whole time. I'd like the fan to come on a bit earlier and to be a bit more efective. A two-fan system would be better I think. Really, I could go on for a long time on this and it would sound as if we were driving unreliable monsters but that is not the case. If they are serviced properley the V6 is a good unit that drives really well, which brings me back to my previous comment. If you want power to use on the public highway, buy a quicker car! Steve

1st August 2016, 14:43	#45
Coups Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Contemporary SE Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Dundee Posts: 1,941 Thanks: 545 Thanked 520 Times in 402 Posts	Wasn't there a chap in the north of Scotland who was using a modified KV6 in a off-road rally buggy type car? I've definitely warn YouTube clips of it tearing around. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1st August 2016, 17:08	#46
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	No, the kv6 is not related to the ronda (twin cam) 2.7. It is a developement of the late rover 827 engine though (and probably the sedona), and that one did have an alloy inlet manifold. I'm not on a downer on the inlet manifold as its used, just that it makes tuning difficult. Is it restrictive? i dont know, but it doesnt look it, and anyway, if it was, that would be at the top end, and my 190 goes all the way to the red line without issue. The exhaust manifold is another matter though... There is a 2litre autograss kv6 around, had a steel crank, cams, forged pistons. Went very well, screamed its head off.

1st August 2016, 17:34	#47
willshot Posted a thing or two Ex-ZI190 owner. ,Ford Focus RS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Malton Posts: 1,573 Thanks: 1,123 Thanked 301 Times in 198 Posts	Not sure if this helps but here is the KV6 racing engine in a MGZR. Andrew Morrison from Stirling ran it for a while in Darlington & District championship. I don't know the spec but it was a quick little so'n'so. Think it was 260 bhp.

1st August 2016, 17:51	#49
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Nice pic. 260 bhp puts it just over 100bhp per litre, not unusual for a 16v head, and not that high either. K18s get 260 bhp regularly, vauxhall red tops 280, ford bdg's 300 odd (but thats a race developed engine). I purposely haven't mentioned honda vtec engines, purely because vtec is a game changer cam timing wise. So yes, 100bhp per litre in a road car should be doable, and it should have a decent share of mid range torque too.

1st August 2016, 18:28	#50
ZedTeeTee This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Stanley Posts: 3,334 Thanks: 240 Thanked 303 Times in 172 Posts	A lot of the info in this thread is way over my head, but I'm really enjoying it nonetheless, what a brilliant example of what a thread should be, people exchanging knowledge and experience and generally just exploring the subject matter without any of the baggage that can creep in. Kudos to all and keep it coming