opinions on why Rover went under - Page 2

Darcydog · 28th August 2018, 08:34

In March 2000 Joachim Milborg - Chairman of BMW claimed he repeatedly warned Byers about the crisis at Longbridge.

Byers was subsequently accused of doctoring his account of his meetings with the BMW Chief.

His sullied reputation for lying and using “spin” is such that I firmly believe the account of Joachim Milborg to be the accurate one over that of Byers “recollections”.

The whole of his department under him was toxic.

Remember the Twin Towers 911 attack? - according to Byers assistant and adviser Jo Moore this was a good day to “bury bad news”.

SCP440 · 28th August 2018, 08:39

My father used to buy 80 cars a year for his reps, in the 70's he was buying a lot of BL cars and had no preference other than reliability and overall long term cost as some of these cars were doing 40k a year.

The final straw for him was when he bought 25 Marina's, several of them were so badly made he refused to even take delivery. A couple of them were very difficult to start and one had an odd misfire, it went back and forth to the dealer and eventually they did a compression check. No compression on one cylinder so the head was pulled, the reason for no compression was because there was no piston or conrod.

Those cars did there time and then he decided to buy Ford's and Japanese.

He did go back to BL for a time before he retired when the local dealer gave him an amazing deal on some Ital's in odd colours but he soon regretted it when reliability and the poor trade in prices when part ex them in a couple of years later.

Darcydog · 28th August 2018, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCP440

My father used to buy 80 cars a year for his reps, in the 70's he was buying a lot of BL cars and had no preference other than reliability and overall long term cost as some of these cars were doing 40k a year.

The final straw for him was when he bought 25 Marina's, several of them were so badly made he refused to even take delivery. A couple of them were very difficult to start and one had an odd misfire, it went back and forth to the dealer and eventually they did a compression check. No compression on one cylinder so the head was pulled, the reason for no compression was because there was no piston or conrod.

Those cars did there time and then he decided to buy Ford's and Japanese.

He did go back to BL for a time before he retired when the local dealer gave him an amazing deal on some Ital's in odd colours but he soon regretted it when reliability and the poor trade in prices when part ex them in a couple of years later.

Very true - we too were banned from having BL cars - Fords and Vauxhall with Audi’s for middle management were the ones on our list.

And even then - our fleet manager stated at several meetings that we should all have BMW’s and Audi’s as the leasing costs were cheaper due to the far higher resale value. This was rejected on the grounds that the ‘image’ of our guys visiting customers would be wrong if they turned up in Audi’s or BMW’s. But the figures were clear - financially they were the better cars to buy/lease.

But don’t forget we are not talking about quite the same damaged company torn apart by mismanagement and union intransigence. BMW were trying to get the issues sorted. The quality of our cars is surely the proof of that?

The issue is BMW uncovered real issues that needed sorting and as part of the deal expected the U.K. Government to honour its commitment. Instead the got a Trade Secretary that ignored them then lied about what was said.

Little wonder they washed their hands of it all.

But it’s a great shame - look what can happen with the right backing!!!

Jaguar Land Rover is a credit not just to its Management and it’s workers - who always had the skills - it is a credit to its Indian Owners TATA - who I am happy to say have proved me and my misgivings about their takeover wrong on every single count.

Les4048 · 28th August 2018, 09:14

Public perception even today is that Rover MG is a joke. I get the usual NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- on a regular basis because I run both marques

Darcydog · 28th August 2018, 10:40

Yes you are right - but only because the various rescue packages failed. Land Rover lost virtually all its overseas markets to Toyota Nissan Mitsubishi and Isuzu.

But look at it now.

Jaguar was worse - reliability was a joke - using Ford platforms helped but it is Tata who really sorted the mess.

Rover group was not so lucky

vacuman · 28th August 2018, 16:05

As mentioned, foreign cars became more fashionable at the end of last century. A trend that continues to this day as so many aspire to drive BMW and Audi that the drives of new housing developments around where I live (where the prices start at £0.8m) are like a German dealership.

And what's not BMW or Audi is Volvo, VW or (hurrah) Range Rover and Jaguar. Compared to back in the day, very few new model Fords and Vauxhalls around here and I guess the ones that are were built overseas.

At least Honda and Nissan's are built in the UK...shame they are mostly ugly creations these days.

peelaaa · 28th August 2018, 16:31

I blame the uk government and press for not backing the car industry. Too much negativity which most people believed.
Look at it now, barely exists. Same for british rail.

Compare this with the french and italian governments keeping their car manufacturers afloat no matter what.

Moonshine Mark · 28th August 2018, 16:53

Amazed that after all these years this question still gets asked.

Anyway, not to worry. Not long now until you can get your hands on a new model

Forestgreen · 28th August 2018, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Just IMO..

If those old enough can recall buying a British car you started with a base cost then anything extra had to be paid for on top..The Jap car industry put all the extras in to start with and at reasonable cost.

Out of curiosity which is the better sales strategy - tempting buyers to upgrade a basic model with gazillions of options, or having a standard model that throws in the kitchen sink and everything else conceivable? I can't help wonder whether a built-in inefficiency with the 75 production line was that if was offered in about a hundred different colours, with multiple interior colour schemes, then lots of different entertainment options, driver convenience options, wheel options etc. Wouldn't that complicate the assembly line? To take one luxury car from the same era, the Jaguar XJ in comparison, it came in barely half a dozen different shades.

mileshawk56 · 28th August 2018, 17:38

I could never understand why BMW who had any interest in purchasing them- they already dominated the British mid/large car market, evidently the most profitable section. The MiNI has proved a money spinner but that was a lot of money and a roundabout way to get the name and no certainty of its success. So what would induce a secretive family controlled car company to venture that amount of money. I think politics was a major factor in whether or not larger investment was made, and at the time the New Labour Government as others before only thought in 5year futures and no one wants to invest in a industry that may still fail or worse still succeed during the next governments (the opposition)! tenure. What did BMW get out of it apart from the MINI? maybe a pat on the back from other European government who saw the British car industry finally destroyed and their factory operations in UK waved through. Maybe some financial favours from the German Banks-lands Banks particularly. It suited a lot of organisations for MGRover to fail so it did. Chris.S.

28th August 2018, 08:34	#11
Darcydog This is my second home Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,428 Thanks: 3,123 Thanked 3,170 Times in 2,096 Posts	Stephen Byers In March 2000 Joachim Milborg - Chairman of BMW claimed he repeatedly warned Byers about the crisis at Longbridge. Byers was subsequently accused of doctoring his account of his meetings with the BMW Chief. His sullied reputation for lying and using “spin” is such that I firmly believe the account of Joachim Milborg to be the accurate one over that of Byers “recollections”. The whole of his department under him was toxic. Remember the Twin Towers 911 attack? - according to Byers assistant and adviser Jo Moore this was a good day to “bury bad news”. Last edited by Darcydog; 28th August 2018 at 08:38.. Reason: Typo

28th August 2018, 16:05	#16
vacuman Gets stuck in MG ZT-T Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: St Albans Posts: 855 Thanks: 69 Thanked 236 Times in 172 Posts	As mentioned, foreign cars became more fashionable at the end of last century. A trend that continues to this day as so many aspire to drive BMW and Audi that the drives of new housing developments around where I live (where the prices start at £0.8m) are like a German dealership. And what's not BMW or Audi is Volvo, VW or (hurrah) Range Rover and Jaguar. Compared to back in the day, very few new model Fords and Vauxhalls around here and I guess the ones that are were built overseas. At least Honda and Nissan's are built in the UK...shame they are mostly ugly creations these days. __________________ • This vehicle was the 8,186th ZT-T to run off the production line, out of 8,249 • This vehicle was the 1,723rd ZT-T 190 + to be made out of 1,756 • This vehicle was the 149th ZT-T in Mica Blue (Ignition) (code: JGY) to be made out of 160 Mica Blue (Ignition) ZT-Ts

28th August 2018, 08:39	#12
SCP440 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T 260 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Witney Posts: 2,504 Thanks: 6 Thanked 910 Times in 571 Posts	My father used to buy 80 cars a year for his reps, in the 70's he was buying a lot of BL cars and had no preference other than reliability and overall long term cost as some of these cars were doing 40k a year. The final straw for him was when he bought 25 Marina's, several of them were so badly made he refused to even take delivery. A couple of them were very difficult to start and one had an odd misfire, it went back and forth to the dealer and eventually they did a compression check. No compression on one cylinder so the head was pulled, the reason for no compression was because there was no piston or conrod. Those cars did there time and then he decided to buy Ford's and Japanese. He did go back to BL for a time before he retired when the local dealer gave him an amazing deal on some Ital's in odd colours but he soon regretted it when reliability and the poor trade in prices when part ex them in a couple of years later.

28th August 2018, 09:14	#14
Les4048 This is my second home Rover 75 Tourer/ MG ZT-T 400 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lhanbryde Posts: 3,278 Thanks: 2,627 Thanked 1,523 Times in 869 Posts	Public perception even today is that Rover MG is a joke. I get the usual NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- on a regular basis because I run both marques

28th August 2018, 10:40	#15
Darcydog This is my second home Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,428 Thanks: 3,123 Thanked 3,170 Times in 2,096 Posts	Yes you are right - but only because the various rescue packages failed. Land Rover lost virtually all its overseas markets to Toyota Nissan Mitsubishi and Isuzu. But look at it now. Jaguar was worse - reliability was a joke - using Ford platforms helped but it is Tata who really sorted the mess. Rover group was not so lucky

28th August 2018, 16:31	#17
peelaaa Posted a thing or two 75 cdti 2004 contemporary Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: meath Posts: 1,551 Thanks: 272 Thanked 80 Times in 58 Posts	I blame the uk government and press for not backing the car industry. Too much negativity which most people believed. Look at it now, barely exists. Same for british rail. Compare this with the french and italian governments keeping their car manufacturers afloat no matter what.

28th August 2018, 16:53	#18
Moonshine Mark I really should get out more....... 2005 Monogram Atmosphere ZT CDTI Auto + 2010 BMW 123d Convertible + 2005 MG TF 160 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Winchester, Hampshire Posts: 2,202 Thanks: 37 Thanked 194 Times in 159 Posts	Amazed that after all these years this question still gets asked. Anyway, not to worry. Not long now until you can get your hands on a new model

28th August 2018, 17:38	#20
mileshawk56 Posted a thing or two MGZT Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Berkshire Posts: 1,281 Thanks: 1,738 Thanked 299 Times in 216 Posts	I could never understand why BMW who had any interest in purchasing them- they already dominated the British mid/large car market, evidently the most profitable section. The MiNI has proved a money spinner but that was a lot of money and a roundabout way to get the name and no certainty of its success. So what would induce a secretive family controlled car company to venture that amount of money. I think politics was a major factor in whether or not larger investment was made, and at the time the New Labour Government as others before only thought in 5year futures and no one wants to invest in a industry that may still fail or worse still succeed during the next governments (the opposition)! tenure. What did BMW get out of it apart from the MINI? maybe a pat on the back from other European government who saw the British car industry finally destroyed and their factory operations in UK waved through. Maybe some financial favours from the German Banks-lands Banks particularly. It suited a lot of organisations for MGRover to fail so it did. Chris.S.