Any Legal Experts On Here Re A Car Sale?

[AURORA MG]

I sold on ebay recently on behalf of my Son who currently is out of work his MG ZR. I listed it as Spares Or Repairs & any known faults. He has got the car in a workshop in Littlehampton & they have found the problem not to be the clutch release bearing but the gearbox. I had no idea of this & placed in the listing no known faults. Apparently the alternator has failed too though the car was driving in the dark at 9PM when it broke down & I went to refrieve it. I sold the car for £230 & he wants £85 back as he says - Full & Final Settlement. He then added if I am not forthcoming with this he will consider Small Claims Court & or given the V5 scenario put the car on the road & let it get retrieved by DVLA & then they would presumably persue my Son.

Here is the advert text.
For sale is a 2005 MG ZR Trophy SE. I am selling this car for Spares or Repairs - Preferably Repairs. My son was using it but as he is not working presently he can't afford to fix it so I am selling it on his behalf. I am an MG Rover enthusiast but have enough cars already. I would like it to be repaired if possible.

It is a 2005 Model Year car & is the Trophy SE model so quite rare. Infact this car is 1 of only 51 Starlight Silver MG ZR Trophy SE models ever made as 2005 Model Year cars only had a short run so looking to the future could well be worth saving if previous era MG cars are anything to go by & I know this from other MG cars I own from the 1980's era.

The car is showing early stages of Head Gasket Failure (HGF). Any MG Rover fans/owners out there will know this is certainly not unusual. Also the Clutch Release Bearing has failed/seized. Sensible thing to do would be replace clutch at same time as that would be very cost effective. The ignition barrel most likely needs to be changed as it has broken though the parts are in the car. You can turn the lock to start the car but it is not set into the cowling. Passenger central locking motor makes the common grinding sound. This is a fairly easy & cheap fix for anyone technical. The engine bay in general is in a generally tidy & clean state.

Other than that I am not aware of any other mechanical issues. Car has an MOT till July 16th 2016. He can't find the new V5 that was/should have been sent though the green slip he got when he bought it is with the car.

The interior is the "AXIS" seat trim. Axis was standard trim in the 2004 Model ZR160 which is fabric & leather trim. It was then standard on the Trophy SE model. Rear head restraints are fitted. There is light wear on the drivers seat bolster, passenger seat is very good & rear seats are near on immaculate. Original Seimens CD/Radio is fitted. Car has Air-conditioning (untested). Rest of interior is in a very good order. I have today (31st January) given the interior a good valet as in thorough vacuum. The dash, door-cards & seats have been shampoo'd. The wheel well has been all cleaned nicely




Bodywork is I would say reasonable for an 11 year old car but far from my fussy standards!! The N/S Front wing has a small soft dent that I would easily say will pop out from inside as there is no crease. The O/S Rear wing has been painted at some point but a rubbish paint job IMO. Scuff to nearside plastic sill finisher but needs painting anyway if you want to restore the car. It Has the Trophy Rear lights. Wheels are the 17" Straights.

If not fixable then would be a good source of parts which in all honesty would be useful to me as I have a 2005 MK2 Rover 25GSI & a 2005 MK2 MG ZR-Express Van but I need the space the car is taking up.




Feel free to ask if you can view it. Call me on 07944 ******

Payment to be made in CASH ONLY. I will not accept paypal on this item. A buyer buys this car knowing it is spares or repairs & not a concourse car.

[topman]

I guess it's what is reasonable, is it reasonable that you didn't know about the and is it reasonable given the cost and the expected state of the car.
I would say at £230 it's a reasonable fault. Spares or repair isn't anything legal but it does give an indication that car isn't a runner and will have faults.

[zedhed]

As stated above mate you covered yourself really by stating its spares or repair,that says it all,so I would tell him where to go

[andymc]

You've also included the possibility that the car may not be fixable, and you've finished the ad with a reminder of what you said at the outset, i.e. that it's sold as a spares/repair. In fact, from the description the car sounds in poor enough condition to start with, and the price reflects that - it's barely above scrappage, for god's sake!

When buying privately, you take your chances that the car will need work done to it. When buying privately at £250 - £250!!! - you EXPECT that the car will need work done to it, especially when the description lists a number of items which will need to be sorted.

If someone tried it on with me like that, I'd tell him to take a running jump (forum rules prevent me from typing exactly what I'd tell him). That's after I'd recovered from laughing in his face ... Were I in your situation I'd call his bluff, because he is bluffing. I wonder how he'd react if you told him you'll be invoicing him for any wasted time, expenses incurred in responding to a vexatious claim, solicitor's fees etc.

In order to prevent the situation escalating, I suggest you get a properly qualified opinion from your local Citizens' Advice Bureau in order to back up your stance before you next have any communication with him. But don't waste any unnecessary time, and certainly not one penny, on this chancer.

[visfix]

Caveat emptor, pure and simple.

No judge/magistrate would rule in his favour if this even made it to a court. You have been totally open and honest in your advert, and covered yourself.

Tell him to go forth and multiply.

[clf]

I am not legal at all, but the ad seems reasonable to me. It seems fair that you have stated a lot of faults and issues with the car. Been fair and reasonable, as well as stating quite clearly, parts or repair.

How does the seller know that the gearbox needs replaced? Is their mechanic competent enough to diagnose that? How did you know the bearing was seized? Did you tell him you are a mechanic or had it checked out by one? I am not asking these questions for an answer, rather, these are questions I would be asking myself if I was either seller or buyer. To me, (and eBay too, for that matter, look at their hints on buying a used car) the answer really is 'buyer beware'!

The one thing that stands out here, that would concern me most of all, is the V5 situation. If your son didnt have, or fill in the slip to send away once it was sold, the buyer could out of spite leave the car abandoned. Then though, he could not pursue you for the £230. For if he did, that would be admitting in court ownership and ultimately liability for the bill of removal, and possibly blackmail? I would consider offering a return of the car, and refund, then relist. I cannot see how you are liable (if you are even liable at all - you are not a dealer, nor a mechanic) for any more. It will however, save any headaches from the authorities later. Alternatively you could respond by saying, something with, 'blackmail is a crime' ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail


I can give you my experience on the abandoned car scenario though. The resolution may be different as I am in Northern Ireland, and had sent off the V5 slip, although as it turned out I was given a fake address.

I had an accident damaged Renault Megane (door dented and window smashed). Sold as spares or repair for £90, when scrap was quite high but I didnt know this then OH:. Met two young fellas in a car park on a Tuesday, got the money, filled the form in, handed docs and keys over, everyone happy.

Thursday night I get a call to work. ''There are two policemen here wanting a word'' It turns out, my old car was left abandoned in a street in Belfast, with tyre marks all over the road. It had been seen handbrake turning everywhere and screeching around the streets in the early hours. ''it is now blocking a main route between two main roads''. My reply was that I sold it on Tuesday, and the V5 was on its way to the DVA. They left happy with that stating that they actually thought it had been stolen from me.

A week later I receive a letter from a salvage company 'on behalf of the Chief Constable for Northern Ireland. It said I was liable for the £200 recovery fee, plus storage costs of £20 per day. I phoned them to tell them that the car was sold, and forms were sent. They too accepted that and that was the end of it. With you not having the V5 to send off, I fear that your son could have the headache of explaining it, although you do have the ebay messages and the ebay advert as your proof. My situation was verifiable with the DVA.

I hope you get a resolution, perhaps a message to eBay stating you are being harassed?

[RobSun]

A few years ago an ex work colleague did a very similar thing after buying a car privately that he wasn't happy with. He ended up in court and found guilty of blackmail and heavily fined.

Could be worth discussing with the police but with today's cut backs they may not be interested and say its a civil matter.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by RobSun

A few years ago an ex work colleague did a very similar thing after buying a car privately that he wasn't happy with. He ended up in court and found guilty of blackmail and heavily fined.

Could be worth discussing with the police but with today's cut backs they may not be interested and say its a civil matter.

This is very likely the scenario that you could inflict upon this chap. However you would evidence of some sort. From what you say:-

"I sold the car for £230 & he wants £85 back as he says - Full & Final Settlement. He then added if I am not forthcoming with this he will consider Small Claims Court & or given the V5 scenario put the car on the road & let it get retrieved by DVLA & then they would presumably pursue my Son."

I would tell him to go to the SCC if he wants because it will cost him close to £85 to register the claim - and with the evidence of the wording of your advertisement - it is clear that you covered all your bases and your advert was as honest as was reasonably possible.

I assume that you and your son did complete the relevant sections of the V5?

If not then ASAP inform the DVLA that you have sold it quoting the 11 digit reference number from the V5C (also can be found on an old VED reminder if you have one) and the cars registration. Tell the DVLA that it was sold spares or repair and tell them the new owner.

Keep copies of everything you send them.

Their threat to put the car on the road unless you give then £85 is blackmail and is taken seriously by the police. But you do need evidence of the threat.

[RPWC]

Agree with all the above, you have been honest and truthful,listing any known faults,and advertising as spares or repair,for £230,if it was me, I would just think,oh well 230quid,get a scrapyard gearbox and repair it,or break it for spares

[KWIL]

Simple, you have covered yourself, if it were me I would be pleased to meet him in court (I have never lost).