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Old 9th April 2022, 10:28   #51
polinsteve
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Originally Posted by bl52krz View Post
I can only speak from my own experience Stephen. We get ‘learners ‘ being taught to drive outside our house. They use the grove opposite to reverse into .Where my computer is, upstairs, I used to sometimes watch these learners reversing.Can you tell me why twice I have seen different cars reversing round the entrance to the grove, and they have been allowed to mount the gutter on the drivers side, one nearly hitting the wall around the garden. Can you also explain to me why, when I had pulled up behind a learner that was to all intents and purposes parked at the side of the road. I was not right in line but sticking out about halfway behind it because there are parked cars in the road, with my right hand indicator flashing, waiting for the car that was coming down the road towards me, before checking in my mirror and pulling out once the car had gone past. As I started to pull out, with no signal from the learners car, it began pulling out in front of me. He pulled out and stopped by the side of the car in front of it. I sat there for a bit, and then I sounded my horn to attract their attention, and I was signalled to pull out and go round the learner. How I was going to do that when there was not enough room to get past because of the width of the road? In the end I had to get out and went to the passenger side and asked the so called teacher how I was going to get past, and why did you not teach the learner driver to use his mirror before moving off. The answer was ‘well he probably did not see you were there’. The ‘teacher’ told me he would take my number and report me to the DVLA for ‘disrupting a learner driver during his driving test’. I said ‘good, because I have it on camera if you care to look at the front windscreen’. I took the number of the car, and reported him to the company that was denoted on the car. Never had a reply, and never had any communication from the DVLA. I could give you a few more incidents I have observed, including one accident when the learner did not stop properly at cross road. I don’t say all teachers are as useless, but believe me, I could almost write a book. By the way, are all cars that are owned by Teaching Establishments supposed to have dual control pedals?
The clue in your comment is LEARNERS. You state, "Why are they allowed to mount the gutter" etc. Easy to answer! Learners make mistakes and learn by those mistakes. The instructor has various options. Keep interrupting the task in hand by intervening with the controls or allow the trainee to get it wrong and try to correct the error on the next attempts.

Truck drivers are also trained to block change but it is obviously up to the driver to choose when. If you are empty for instance, you won't go through all 18 gears and the splitter. On the approach to a down gradient, the training, (and common sense) is to reduce speed before the decline and block change into the required gear. Remember that the hydraulic/electric retarder will do most of the work, allied with the exhaust brake and obviously the tractor and trailer footbrake. As with most driving, it depends on load and circumstances.

No driver, regardless of experience, is perfect. I chose, where safe, to let drivers make errors and learn from them. One road in Bromley has a 6' 6" width limit with warning signs at frequent intervals for I believe about 2 miles. My trainees were told to follow the road ahead unless instructed or road signs dictated otherwise. I would "ALLOW" my trainees to miss the signposted diversion and enter a road with a restricted width, at which point I would stop them and ask why they had not obeyed the signs. After a fairly tight reversing manoeuvre I would then take them round the same route and point out every sign. It was very rare after that for any driver to miss signs, most importantly bridge height warnings and prohibitions.

In my 50+ years of driving, (44 buses) I have seen countless drivers of ALL types of vehicles make stupid, unforced errors. For instance, just drive along any motorway and look at the gaps between so many trucks. Apart from the dangers of diminishing the safety gap they massively close down their field of vision, thus affecting their ability to stop in a controlled fashion. However, I don't judge all truckers by those low standards. Tipper drivers have a reputation for being a bit pushy. I had a trainee bus driver on her PSV test from Mandela Way on the Old Kent Road to Orpington. It is a tricky route for a bus test and she was worried about the first few miles. The tipper driver obviously eyeballed the examiner and his excellent driving and awareness of what she had to do was probably why she passed her test with just two minors.

As part of my job as a PSV instructor I carried out covert and overt checks on drivers and was forever flabbergasted at how some drivers threw away the very basics of safe driving. I was responsible for the retraining of many of these delinquent drivers and unfortunately, some drove their way to losing their job.

As drivers we make choices, an instructor can train but it is then up to the driver to have some pride.

On a recruitment day for PSV licence holders we had 22 applicants, each one told in advance that there would be a driving assessment, basic English and arithmetic assessments and a multiple choice highway code test.
17 of the 22 applicants failed the highway code and of the remainder 4 failed the driving assessment. Each of those candidates had been taught to drive and each of those who failed hadn't got the pride to do the job properly.


Rant completed.
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Old 9th April 2022, 10:37   #52
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Hi again Stephen. Sorry you feel that I am running down all people who teach people to drive. Just facts as they are observed by myself. I will not be drawn into how good I am at anything, just to say that having during my working life covering over a million miles, and observation being the one thing that surpassed anything else on the road.During that 47 years I think I picked up enough hints on how to drive on the crowded roads of this country and abroad. Have a little read of my post above this one, and you may find out where I am coming from. And with regards to the changing down through the gears, when you have 38 tons behind you, and no brakes, you then know why you were taught to change down through the gears. Two speed axle and all the others. Food for thought eh.
No brakes? Poor driving and/or poor maintenance. With the appropriate speed and gear into a hazard, brake failure should rarely happen, unlike the days of hydraulic, vacuum and drum systems.
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Old 9th April 2022, 10:55   #53
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I'm old school. I was taught to use the gearbox to slow the vehicle down. And I still use this method. Banana is still on her original clutch, and at 217,600+miles it still operates as it should. I was taught to drive by my late brother who was a driving instructor.
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Old 9th April 2022, 22:59   #54
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I have always used the gears to slow down/moderate my speed, I can't stand 'comfort braking' for every corner, oncoming car or for no obvious reason , and as I am aging find that I use the gearbox more and brakes less - if I can drive home from work without using my brakes unless actually stopping at junctions, for unexpected actions by other drivers or random wildlife crossing the road then I am happy (just change gear to match speed required, or for corners change down and accelerate through instead of braking).
My daily commute to work and back is all country lanes, one of which is barely wide enough for two cars in places and has a couple of enjoyable corners.
I am aware that i don't usually show my brake lights when slowing, I drive observing the road ahead and reacting as required without recourse to random braking and if I notice the following car getting too close (yes, I use the mirrors to monitor what's going on behind me aswell) will cover the brake pedal just enough to light the brake lights and let them know I am slowing down.
Probably a bad habit, but if I am following a 'comfort braker' I will pass when safe (using the gears as required to pass as quickly as sensible for the given conditions) and proceed to only use my brakes when needed in the vain hope that they will understand that constant braking for no actual reason isn't necessary.
Please don’t start me on drivers that don't know how wide their vehicles are or 4X4 drivers who have to use the wrong side of the road to avoid puddles!
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Old 19th April 2022, 21:32   #55
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I think that the main problem today, and tomorrow is that there is no pride or forethought in a lot of drivers on the road today. Could not care less. Get out of my way I am bigger than you. The last comment mostly concerns SUV drivers. I don’t know if I have an odd way of observation when on the road, but I can usually tell what sex the driver in front is, without seeing them. I have gained this insight by observing over all my years of driving. The fair sex can not drive round an island correctly. A lot of them can not reverse properly. They race up to junctions and slam the brakes on.I have actually been in a car with a female, and felt worried that we were going to have an accident at a junction, the driving was so non observational. This particular young woman two weeks later wrote her car off by driving onto an island without noticing a BUS coming round the island. I enjoy sitting in my car when I take my wife shopping at Asda, and watching people park their cars between the white lines. Best one was, sorry girls, was a woman who took 7 attempts to park between the white lines. What I find alarming is, they are driving on the same road as myself .Some of the yuf racers are a danger on the road. We used to have problems where I live with ‘boy racers’ tearing round the roads, also the trike brigades. After a few accidents and one particularly horrible death, and a lady out with her dog being hit from behind by an unlicensed, uninsured driver, we had cctv cameras put up and some arrest’s, it seems to have gone out to the idiot brigade, not to bother coming here now. I was always taught that smooth was good, so that is what I try to keep to I also have a camera in front of the V6, but not in the rear because of the rear blind. Play back has sometimes been interesting to say the least. Rant over now.
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Old 20th April 2022, 16:42   #56
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Default Which driving technique uses the most fuel !!!!

I just waded though 6 pages of claptrap,,, in answer to the buss driving instructor DD busses get just about the worse fuel figures on this planet,,and all that stopping and starting plays hell with the brakes... Now all you old boys still driving old Fodens and ERFs and do,nt mentions Borderers ,those trucks where slow and the brakes where NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-,so of course you had to use the box to slow down,,modern trucks with auto boxes and very powerful brakes ,you still need to drop a gear but you can rely on the brakes .. The technique I use in my tourer auto deisel is this .. I accelerate slowly until about 50mph when the box changes into top,then I can press harder until 60/70mph ,then put on CC... Slowing I knockoff CC change to gear manually into forth ,slow down (no brakes ) then third at about 45/50 ,revs go to about 3000. For about the last 8years I,v been driving my 75 from London to Lincs over night ,so I get chance to really drag out a good fuel figure (47mpg if you are interested(on the A1) Having just retired after "yes" 50 years ,and after driving just about everything there is to drive I prefer the old fashion way ( gears brakes,mirrror signal maneuver )not always in that order mind...regards all
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Old 22nd April 2022, 12:57   #57
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When I took my "hearse" test at the funeral directors (examiner was a young woman with no qualifications other than a normal driving license and a one day course!) I was given a one word review in the comments section on the "pass" form. The word was "Smooth". I presume that she meant the driving and not the driver!!! Back on topic - smooth = economical!
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Old 22nd April 2022, 13:12   #58
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Originally Posted by polinsteve View Post
The clue in your comment is LEARNERS. You state, "Why are they allowed to mount the gutter" etc. Easy to answer! Learners make mistakes and learn by those mistakes. The instructor has various options. Keep interrupting the task in hand by intervening with the controls or allow the trainee to get it wrong and try to correct the error on the next attempts.

Truck drivers are also trained to block change but it is obviously up to the driver to choose when. If you are empty for instance, you won't go through all 18 gears and the splitter. On the approach to a down gradient, the training, (and common sense) is to reduce speed before the decline and block change into the required gear. Remember that the hydraulic/electric retarder will do most of the work, allied with the exhaust brake and obviously the tractor and trailer footbrake. As with most driving, it depends on load and circumstances.

No driver, regardless of experience, is perfect. I chose, where safe, to let drivers make errors and learn from them. One road in Bromley has a 6' 6" width limit with warning signs at frequent intervals for I believe about 2 miles. My trainees were told to follow the road ahead unless instructed or road signs dictated otherwise. I would "ALLOW" my trainees to miss the signposted diversion and enter a road with a restricted width, at which point I would stop them and ask why they had not obeyed the signs. After a fairly tight reversing manoeuvre I would then take them round the same route and point out every sign. It was very rare after that for any driver to miss signs, most importantly bridge height warnings and prohibitions.

In my 50+ years of driving, (44 buses) I have seen countless drivers of ALL types of vehicles make stupid, unforced errors. For instance, just drive along any motorway and look at the gaps between so many trucks. Apart from the dangers of diminishing the safety gap they massively close down their field of vision, thus affecting their ability to stop in a controlled fashion. However, I don't judge all truckers by those low standards. Tipper drivers have a reputation for being a bit pushy. I had a trainee bus driver on her PSV test from Mandela Way on the Old Kent Road to Orpington. It is a tricky route for a bus test and she was worried about the first few miles. The tipper driver obviously eyeballed the examiner and his excellent driving and awareness of what she had to do was probably why she passed her test with just two minors.

As part of my job as a PSV instructor I carried out covert and overt checks on drivers and was forever flabbergasted at how some drivers threw away the very basics of safe driving. I was responsible for the retraining of many of these delinquent drivers and unfortunately, some drove their way to losing their job.

As drivers we make choices, an instructor can train but it is then up to the driver to have some pride.

On a recruitment day for PSV licence holders we had 22 applicants, each one told in advance that there would be a driving assessment, basic English and arithmetic assessments and a multiple choice highway code test.
17 of the 22 applicants failed the highway code and of the remainder 4 failed the driving assessment. Each of those candidates had been taught to drive and each of those who failed hadn't got the pride to do the job properly.


Rant completed.
Stephen. I presume you got out of the cab and took control over the reversing driver of the goods vehicle?
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Old 22nd April 2022, 13:51   #59
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Originally Posted by lipsee View Post
I just waded though 6 pages of claptrap,,, in answer to the buss driving instructor DD busses get just about the worse fuel figures on this planet,,and all that stopping and starting plays hell with the brakes... Now all you old boys still driving old Fodens and ERFs and do,nt mentions Borderers ,those trucks where slow and the brakes where NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-,so of course you had to use the box to slow down,,modern trucks with auto boxes and very powerful brakes ,you still need to drop a gear but you can rely on the brakes .. The technique I use in my tourer auto deisel is this .. I accelerate slowly until about 50mph when the box changes into top,then I can press harder until 60/70mph ,then put on CC... Slowing I knockoff CC change to gear manually into forth ,slow down (no brakes ) then third at about 45/50 ,revs go to about 3000. For about the last 8years I,v been driving my 75 from London to Lincs over night ,so I get chance to really drag out a good fuel figure (47mpg if you are interested(on the A1) Having just retired after "yes" 50 years ,and after driving just about everything there is to drive I prefer the old fashion way ( gears brakes,mirrror signal maneuver )not always in that order mind...regards all
Modern buses and trucks have very efficient air brakes, hydraulic or electric retarders and exhaust brakes. It is only very poor driving or abysmal maintenance that could cause failure of all of these systems.
The recognised way to drive is, after the usual observations and anticipation, use the brakes to reduce speed. The 1st touch will apply the retarder and exhaust brakes, and illuminate the brake lights. Firmer pressure will apply the service brake. Then, when the desired speed is attained, select a gear and or axle ratio to hold the speed without over revving the engine. The engine breaking in unison with the retarder and exhaust brake will then do most of the work, the service brake doing minimum work.
Being in the correct gear at the correct speed minimises brake, engine and transmission wear as well as enhancing safety.
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Old 22nd April 2022, 13:59   #60
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When I took my "hearse" test at the funeral directors (examiner was a young woman with no qualifications other than a normal driving license and a one day course!) I was given a one word review in the comments section on the "pass" form. The word was "Smooth". I presume that she meant the driving and not the driver!!! Back on topic - smooth = economical!
On my instructors course, I came out top on the non-driving modules. On the driving assessment I was very happy with being assessed as excellent......until a colleague one upped me with a "silky smooth" drive. It was well deserved and was one of only about half a dozen drivers I've trained or ridden with who were as outstanding and consistent.
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