Any advice on contesting a speeding fine?

[raykay]

Originally Posted by steve811

As I have said before Ray, that is only the outright requirement. The whole idea behind disclosure is to assist the process, and it is slanted in the defences favour if the prosecutor fulfils their duties correctly. That includes telling an accused what they are accused of and what information they intend to produce to back it up. But of course you stick to your view of things, and keep trumpeting the same old tired answer.

No I agree, as with your earlier answer, the accused is entitled to know what the evidence will be, so that they are not 'ambushed' at court over something they knew nothing about.

In the case of speeding it will be in the initial paperwork (the NIP) - time, alleged speed, location, speed limit at location etc.
After a plea of not guilty is entered, the prosecution are required to disclose all the evidence they intend to use.

If a request for the 'evidence' is made prior to a not guilty plea, it is likely to be ignored and nothing will be supplied. In the case of speeding, if a request is made 'for any photograph that may help identify the driver', the SCPs will usually send them, if the request is for 'photographic evidence', they won't.

It's just that there are posts in this thread saying that the prosecution have to supply the evidence on request, when they don't.

[steve811]

Yes, I apologise for my language, it was a little trite! However, there is sometimes "evidence" that is not on the NIP that will be adduced later in court (not usual in speeding cases I agree) and it is worth making the request.

[James.uk]

Ray, how can anyone be expected to make a decision as to what to plead without knowing what evidence their is???

I would always ask to see all/any evidence against me in order to decide what to do, that is both my right, and common sense innit..

Withholding evidence is itself illegal..
...

[raykay]

Originally Posted by James.uk

Ray, how can anyone be expected to make a decision as to what to plead without knowing what evidence their is???

I would always ask to see all/any evidence against me in order to decide what to do, that is both my right, and common sense innit..

Withholding evidence is itself illegal..
...

The details of what evidence will be given is required to be given prior to a not guilty plea, it's the actual evidence that is given after a not guilty plea that matters, and the decision by the accused is whether they consider they are guilty or not.

If the person accepts they are guilty, they plead guilty, the brief facts are given and sentencing dealt with.

If the person does not accept they are guilty, they plead not guilty, the prosecution produce their full evidence, which the accused will have had a copy of, the defence give their evidence, and the court makes its decision.

You are not entitled to see all the evidence first and then make up your mind.

[SirRustalot]

Interesting debate. The forms I have in front of me clearly state that I can request a copy of the pic/video at any time.

Mind you, whether they send them or not is a moot point.

Grateful thanks, chaps - I admire your passion!

[raykay]

Originally Posted by steve811

Yes, I apologise for my language, it was a little trite! However, there is sometimes "evidence" that is not on the NIP that will be adduced later in court (not usual in speeding cases I agree) and it is worth making the request.

As long as you don't use the word 'evidence' and word the request for information suitably, it may well be forthcoming - it is the word 'evidence' they don't like.

[pab]

The last time they caught me was in 1988, just lift your right foot off the loud pedal in built up areas and keep your eyes peeled.. Works for me.

[steve811]

That's not quite correct. Under the new rules the prosecution must supply to the court and the accused the details they intend to rely on in court, no later than the day before the hearing. In my experience if this happens and the accused tells the court that they have not had time to review the evidence (very likely) then the court adjourns without a plea being entered. However, if the case is an obvious one and the accused try's that on then they may lose their automatic 33% "discount" on a fine or sentence.

[raykay]

Originally Posted by SirRustalot

Interesting debate. The forms I have in front of me clearly state that I can request a copy of the pic/video at any time.

Mind you, whether they send them or not is a moot point.

Grateful thanks, chaps - I admire your passion!

Some, as you have found, of the SCPs are happy to send copies of pictures/ videos, they are not required to - and some don't.

[raykay]

Originally Posted by steve811

That's not quite correct. Under the new rules the prosecution must supply to the court and the accused the details they intend to rely on in court, no later than the day before the hearing. In my experience if this happens and the accused tells the court that they have not had time to review the evidence (very likely) then the court adjourns without a plea being entered. However, if the case is an obvious one and the accused try's that on then they may lose their automatic 33% "discount" on a fine or sentence.

The details of the evidence, so they know what's coming...............