Sat Nav MK3 to Mk4 upgrade

DeeCee · 6th November 2006, 13:21

Upgraded my MK3 Nav system to MK4, V27 software.
No major problems, impressed by the speed, split screen and 3D mode running on my existing 4:3 screen.
The NAV screen is not as bright as it was with the MK3 system, guess it's down to the colour selection. Need to look at changing the colour selections in the operating system..... or buy 16:9 screen.

The overnight battery drain current has dropped from 88mA with the MK3 to 66mA with the MK4.

One drawback, the Tag info from my Icelink Plus/ Ipod is no longer easy to read in full or split screen modes
It looks like the MK4 system writes some fixed data to the same area as tag info, this blanks parts of the tag display.
.... still trying to see what the data is written by the MK4, will look at temporary reinstalling my old CD player to show what is displayed on the screen.

Keith...
what info do you have on date/time data on the IBus ?
I can monitor IBus data on my car but do not know what to expect from the BMW end.

If enough data can be gathered, will look at a PIC/IBus clock system.

Keith · 6th November 2006, 17:03

Aha this is another (like Lates Testbook) exercises where I enlisted people from around the globe to help out, have read of this PDF. Note the Ibus send and receive clock and date formats differ slightly

Also attached is a VB app that was written for me but does not work 100% I did not progress it because by then I had already decided using a Car PC was not practical. it squirts out time and date on a pc comm port via an Ibus interface

A bit of background

the Bordmonitor is a dumb interface it can send commands to the IKE to set the IKE clock via the set screen but that is it. Yours will not work as you have probably seen because although you can alter the time and date values you can't "save" them

The IKE then writes the time and dates directly to the screen position as a graphics draw type command so it is the IKE bit we do not have that needs to be emulated.

Any device needs an embedded RTC and an Ibus interface, it needs to receive the (occasional) time and date set commands from the Bordmonitor or provide an on board based method of setting the clock and it needs to be able to translate that RTC signal to an Ibus output sent to the Bordmonitor address

DeeCee · 6th November 2006, 18:33

Thank you Keith,

The IKE Clock.zip looks like the info required.
Will verify the clock setting by monitoring the IBus and setting the clock with the Nav monitor input before proceeding further.

If the date/ clock data format is the same as noted in the PDF, will assume the clock data to the monitor is correct. Will build/ program a prototype PIC/ IBus interface and fire some fixed date and time data to the monitor.

PIC and battery backup RTC not a problem, makes life easier as we do not require any date/clock setting hardware inputs.

Keith · 6th November 2006, 19:09

You star!

When I tried the exe it did not produce all the desired results I think iirc I had partial date and some clock I assumed when I had it coded I would need to fire off the time every minute as the Bordmonitor simply displays the info until turned off or refreshed with an update.

I can get the VB source for it if you need it

What I never established is how often the date was sent probably every minute as well

If you are not a member of BMW Nav I will dig out some Ibus traces with the embedded data

Have you got Franks Ibus analyser app? as you can do al sorts of things with it like windows lights etc once you know the destination addresses

DeeCee · 6th November 2006, 19:46

Member of X5world and HackTheIbus..... got the analyzer from there, same as "Franks Ibus analyser app" ?

Have you tried using the analyser to fire some fixed date and time data to the display ?

If the data format is as described in the PDF then I should not have a problem in programming this in a PIC.
Got enough info for interfacing the PIC to the IBus.
Guess I would fire the time and date data to the display on change of the minute. Would disable the PIC IBus comms when Ign/Aux is off to allow the BCU to go to sleep.
..... Moving tooo fast at this point, must verify that we have the correct data format, will test using analyser software and my reslers interface.... next week some time.

Keith · 6th November 2006, 20:34

Have a play
It was back in the spring when I last tried franks app and on my old 4:3 screen I could send stuff to the screen as expected then I tried it with my 16:9 and got some odd results probably finger trouble though. almost as if the 16:9 screen was on a different address which it can't be.

If you are keen on giving this a go I will go and redo my experiments so I can refresh my findings as I have forgotten how far I got.

You can start by simply firing off time and date commands using Franks app as that is the easiest way to establish for sure what will appear where on the screen that will also verify the PDF file, something in the back of my mind says either that or the app was wrong somewhere.

If you go back through my posts on BmwNav and hack the Ibus you should also find a few replies mentioned a BMW Radio clock module that took time from the radio aerial and used that to update the IKE obviously no use to our cars IKE but its broadcast could be trapped to update any RTC module.

Keith · 6th November 2006, 20:47

Ah just twigged
I had the app written based on the info in the PDF file but if you look on page two you will see one destination is E7 and the other is 80 (the cluster) this I think is wrong or at least one is!

DeeCee · 6th November 2006, 21:33

Yes I had picked that up.

On trawling the clock posts in HacktheIbus, I have been unable to confirm the correct destination code for the Nav screen, is FF(broadcast) or E7(Textbar).
Have you written the date & time data to the screen, if so what was the destination code, is it the same for 4:3 & 16:9 systems

What was VERY interesting was the GPS sending the date & time info every minute (on a MK2 system) have you seen this data on your MK3 or 4 system ? This would make life easy..... no RTC just update on GPS time, maybe with a GMT summer time offset.

Keith · 6th November 2006, 22:51

I will check the addresses later

Yes it is annoying UTC time and date is available from GPS but afaik the MK3 and MK4 does not xmit on the Bus all you ever see is location engine RPM and speed in KPH

mind you thats can be entertaining as well

DeeCee · 7th November 2006, 10:11

Had some overnight thoughts....
What extras will we get if we display the time and date on the screen ?

If "the Bordmonitor is a dumb interface " then....

... no ETA Calculations... where are the calculations carried out
... maybe we have to send the time & date info to the Nav computer ?
... any evidence/ data of time and date being sent to the Nav computer ?
... maybe a simple broadcast of the time may give ETA calculations ?
... Maybe not worthwhile if all we get is a time & Date display ?

Very disappointed we do not have GPS time and date !

Hopefully gain more info when I monitor the IBus next week.

6th November 2006, 13:21	#1
DeeCee Regular poster none Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: none Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sat Nav MK3 to Mk4 upgrade Upgraded my MK3 Nav system to MK4, V27 software. No major problems, impressed by the speed, split screen and 3D mode running on my existing 4:3 screen. The NAV screen is not as bright as it was with the MK3 system, guess it's down to the colour selection. Need to look at changing the colour selections in the operating system..... or buy 16:9 screen. The overnight battery drain current has dropped from 88mA with the MK3 to 66mA with the MK4. One drawback, the Tag info from my Icelink Plus/ Ipod is no longer easy to read in full or split screen modes It looks like the MK4 system writes some fixed data to the same area as tag info, this blanks parts of the tag display. .... still trying to see what the data is written by the MK4, will look at temporary reinstalling my old CD player to show what is displayed on the screen. Keith... what info do you have on date/time data on the IBus ? I can monitor IBus data on my car but do not know what to expect from the BMW end. If enough data can be gathered, will look at a PIC/IBus clock system.

6th November 2006, 19:46	#5
DeeCee Regular poster none Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: none Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Member of X5world and HackTheIbus..... got the analyzer from there, same as "Franks Ibus analyser app" ? Have you tried using the analyser to fire some fixed date and time data to the display ? If the data format is as described in the PDF then I should not have a problem in programming this in a PIC. Got enough info for interfacing the PIC to the IBus. Guess I would fire the time and date data to the display on change of the minute. Would disable the PIC IBus comms when Ign/Aux is off to allow the BCU to go to sleep. ..... Moving tooo fast at this point, must verify that we have the correct data format, will test using analyser software and my reslers interface.... next week some time. Last edited by DeeCee; 6th November 2006 at 19:50..

6th November 2006, 17:03	#2
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Aha this is another (like Lates Testbook) exercises where I enlisted people from around the globe to help out, have read of this PDF. Note the Ibus send and receive clock and date formats differ slightly Also attached is a VB app that was written for me but does not work 100% I did not progress it because by then I had already decided using a Car PC was not practical. it squirts out time and date on a pc comm port via an Ibus interface A bit of background the Bordmonitor is a dumb interface it can send commands to the IKE to set the IKE clock via the set screen but that is it. Yours will not work as you have probably seen because although you can alter the time and date values you can't "save" them The IKE then writes the time and dates directly to the screen position as a graphics draw type command so it is the IKE bit we do not have that needs to be emulated. Any device needs an embedded RTC and an Ibus interface, it needs to receive the (occasional) time and date set commands from the Bordmonitor or provide an on board based method of setting the clock and it needs to be able to translate that RTC signal to an Ibus output sent to the Bordmonitor address

6th November 2006, 18:33	#3
DeeCee Regular poster none Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: none Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Keith, The IKE Clock.zip looks like the info required. Will verify the clock setting by monitoring the IBus and setting the clock with the Nav monitor input before proceeding further. If the date/ clock data format is the same as noted in the PDF, will assume the clock data to the monitor is correct. Will build/ program a prototype PIC/ IBus interface and fire some fixed date and time data to the monitor. PIC and battery backup RTC not a problem, makes life easier as we do not require any date/clock setting hardware inputs.

6th November 2006, 19:09	#4
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	You star! When I tried the exe it did not produce all the desired results I think iirc I had partial date and some clock I assumed when I had it coded I would need to fire off the time every minute as the Bordmonitor simply displays the info until turned off or refreshed with an update. I can get the VB source for it if you need it What I never established is how often the date was sent probably every minute as well If you are not a member of BMW Nav I will dig out some Ibus traces with the embedded data Have you got Franks Ibus analyser app? as you can do al sorts of things with it like windows lights etc once you know the destination addresses

6th November 2006, 20:34	#6
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Have a play It was back in the spring when I last tried franks app and on my old 4:3 screen I could send stuff to the screen as expected then I tried it with my 16:9 and got some odd results probably finger trouble though. almost as if the 16:9 screen was on a different address which it can't be. If you are keen on giving this a go I will go and redo my experiments so I can refresh my findings as I have forgotten how far I got. You can start by simply firing off time and date commands using Franks app as that is the easiest way to establish for sure what will appear where on the screen that will also verify the PDF file, something in the back of my mind says either that or the app was wrong somewhere. If you go back through my posts on BmwNav and hack the Ibus you should also find a few replies mentioned a BMW Radio clock module that took time from the radio aerial and used that to update the IKE obviously no use to our cars IKE but its broadcast could be trapped to update any RTC module.

6th November 2006, 20:47	#7
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Ah just twigged I had the app written based on the info in the PDF file but if you look on page two you will see one destination is E7 and the other is 80 (the cluster) this I think is wrong or at least one is!

6th November 2006, 21:33	#8
DeeCee Regular poster none Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: none Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes I had picked that up. On trawling the clock posts in HacktheIbus, I have been unable to confirm the correct destination code for the Nav screen, is FF(broadcast) or E7(Textbar). Have you written the date & time data to the screen, if so what was the destination code, is it the same for 4:3 & 16:9 systems What was VERY interesting was the GPS sending the date & time info every minute (on a MK2 system) have you seen this data on your MK3 or 4 system ? This would make life easy..... no RTC just update on GPS time, maybe with a GMT summer time offset.

6th November 2006, 22:51	#9
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	I will check the addresses later Yes it is annoying UTC time and date is available from GPS but afaik the MK3 and MK4 does not xmit on the Bus all you ever see is location engine RPM and speed in KPH mind you thats can be entertaining as well

7th November 2006, 10:11	#10
DeeCee Regular poster none Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: none Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Had some overnight thoughts.... What extras will we get if we display the time and date on the screen ? If "the Bordmonitor is a dumb interface " then.... ... no ETA Calculations... where are the calculations carried out ... maybe we have to send the time & date info to the Nav computer ? ... any evidence/ data of time and date being sent to the Nav computer ? ... maybe a simple broadcast of the time may give ETA calculations ? ... Maybe not worthwhile if all we get is a time & Date display ? Very disappointed we do not have GPS time and date ! Hopefully gain more info when I monitor the IBus next week.