FFS or not FFS this is the question.

TheSnowMan · 24th May 2018, 12:28

Hi Guys & Girls!

I wonder if any members can shed some light on a current issue with my Rover 75.

Nearly a week ago now, I had just gone for a big shop and loaded the car up with goodies and picked up my son and his girlfriend 40 mile trip so the engine was well warmed up as well as it being a scorcher (Bear with me on this one)

After starting the car it was fine until 2 mins out of the car park and then the engine died suddenly and I was unable to start it again. Called the AA (and the better half to collect the shopping and kids) and waited a total of almost 4 hours (with various BS from the AA for delays)

Whilst I was waiting I started looking up on the forums and found FFS and the FOC and thought, well it sounds very much like this... I had already recently had the back seat off so I had a little wiggle of the leads to the pump side (Thought they might of been pinched when I put the seat back) and and tried to start the car once more. Fired up 1st time no problem. I had a little test drive and thought well I might as well try and get home. Of which I did and was a happy chappy.

Next morning I thought I'll see if she fires up? No problem, 1st time as always. Later that afternoon I thought I'll check for the FOC, took off the covers for both the pump and filter and checked for it on the filter it wasn't there BUT it didn't seem unclipped so put everything back together again and tried to start her up again.

Again 1st time it started and I left it idling for a bit, I even managed to get my ELM reader on reading values from the ECU it did show No fuel pressure, but I'm not sure whether this was always the case (It only cost a tenner) plus the engine was running fine, until maybe a few minutes later I could hear the pump humming but then it developed an erratic slight clunking/knocking noise (a bit like something was hitting with with a small hammer) seconds later revs went up and down and then the engine cut out.

Engine ignition off, engine ignition on, I can hear the pump priming 3-4 seconds then tried to start. Nothing, full speed from the starter motor, nothing. Tried a few times with same result, every 2nd or 3rd go pump didn't prime and the engine starter motor just turns over 10-15 seconds with no luck. By this time its getting dark and had to stop.

So, question is, does this sound like FFS and should I go ahead and fit the FOC re seat it (and replace the O seal) or is this a pump problem and I should look further at the pump? or could the noise I'm hearing be coming from the filter fuel lines connected to the pump? or is this a hot engine problem and I should look at cam sensors and the like?? (No error codes are present, at least on my cheapo reader)

Any ideas? has anyone seen this kind of behaviour before?

Cheers in advance
Tony

Bogbrush82 · 24th May 2018, 12:32

Cam sensor failure is a common problem on the Mondeo - Not sure about the 75 though.

suzublu · 24th May 2018, 12:48

No harm in giving the filter casing a twist to make sure it's airtight. Some people use a self tapper instead of the clip to stop it moving. As said, cam sensor or crank sensor might be dodgy

zedhed · 24th May 2018, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzublu

No harm in giving the filter casing a twist to make sure it's airtight. Some people use a self tapper instead of the clip to stop it moving. As said, cam sensor or crank sensor might be dodgy

Just ordered my white clip and o ring to be on safe side.😗

Sent from my LG-M160 using Tapatalk

T-Cut · 24th May 2018, 18:45

IMO, all later petrol models should fave a FOC fitted as a matter of course. If MGR hadn't failed when it did, most of these cars would have got one free with a routine service. MGR instructed their service depots to fit them as cars came in for a service. Unfortunately, the vast majority of later petrol models didn't get the FOC, so are vulnerable to FFS. They will all, sooner or later, be affected by it. You're wise to fit one even if your current issue is due to something else.

TC

TheSnowMan · 25th May 2018, 07:50

Thanks for all the response, I will certainly fit the clip and new o-ring just to eliminate that

I had another quick look last night, and got a vid of the pump noise, its not a clunking noise, its more of a clicking noise, sounds a bit like mad morse code!! is there a relay in there?

Is there a way to upload the video so bods can have a gander?

Cheers again
Tony

SD1too · 25th May 2018, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSnowMan

... got a vid of the pump noise, its not a clunking noise, its more of a clicking noise, sounds a bit like mad morse code!! is there a relay in there?

No Tony, there isn’t a relay in the fuel pump. The noise might be the pump attempting to maintain fuel pressure due to the filter problem. You should fit the clip before considering anything more complicated.

Simon

TheSnowMan · 25th May 2018, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

No Tony, there isn’t a relay in the fuel pump. The noise might be the pump attempting to maintain fuel pressure due to the filter problem. You should fit the clip before considering anything more complicated.

Simon

Thanks for that, here's a link to the vid can you see what you think?

https://youtu.be/0zzgj4r3R9c

T-Cut · 25th May 2018, 13:12

Never heard anything like that before. Sounds like the bearings are worn out.

TC

TheSnowMan · 25th May 2018, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Cut

Never heard anything like that before. Sounds like the bearings are worn out.

TC

Yeah, weird isn't it.

Know anyone that has a 2nd pump they wanna sell??

24th May 2018, 12:28	#1
TheSnowMan Regular poster Rover 75 1.8T Tourer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Bristol Posts: 36 Thanks: 53 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	FFS or not FFS this is the question. Hi Guys & Girls! I wonder if any members can shed some light on a current issue with my Rover 75. Nearly a week ago now, I had just gone for a big shop and loaded the car up with goodies and picked up my son and his girlfriend 40 mile trip so the engine was well warmed up as well as it being a scorcher (Bear with me on this one) After starting the car it was fine until 2 mins out of the car park and then the engine died suddenly and I was unable to start it again. Called the AA (and the better half to collect the shopping and kids) and waited a total of almost 4 hours (with various BS from the AA for delays) Whilst I was waiting I started looking up on the forums and found FFS and the FOC and thought, well it sounds very much like this... I had already recently had the back seat off so I had a little wiggle of the leads to the pump side (Thought they might of been pinched when I put the seat back) and and tried to start the car once more. Fired up 1st time no problem. I had a little test drive and thought well I might as well try and get home. Of which I did and was a happy chappy. Next morning I thought I'll see if she fires up? No problem, 1st time as always. Later that afternoon I thought I'll check for the FOC, took off the covers for both the pump and filter and checked for it on the filter it wasn't there BUT it didn't seem unclipped so put everything back together again and tried to start her up again. Again 1st time it started and I left it idling for a bit, I even managed to get my ELM reader on reading values from the ECU it did show No fuel pressure, but I'm not sure whether this was always the case (It only cost a tenner) plus the engine was running fine, until maybe a few minutes later I could hear the pump humming but then it developed an erratic slight clunking/knocking noise (a bit like something was hitting with with a small hammer) seconds later revs went up and down and then the engine cut out. Engine ignition off, engine ignition on, I can hear the pump priming 3-4 seconds then tried to start. Nothing, full speed from the starter motor, nothing. Tried a few times with same result, every 2nd or 3rd go pump didn't prime and the engine starter motor just turns over 10-15 seconds with no luck. By this time its getting dark and had to stop. So, question is, does this sound like FFS and should I go ahead and fit the FOC re seat it (and replace the O seal) or is this a pump problem and I should look further at the pump? or could the noise I'm hearing be coming from the filter fuel lines connected to the pump? or is this a hot engine problem and I should look at cam sensors and the like?? (No error codes are present, at least on my cheapo reader) Any ideas? has anyone seen this kind of behaviour before? Cheers in advance Tony

24th May 2018, 12:32	#2
Bogbrush82 I really should get out more....... BMW X3 2.0D Join Date: May 2017 Location: Tipton Posts: 2,383 Thanks: 51 Thanked 765 Times in 421 Posts	Cam sensor failure is a common problem on the Mondeo - Not sure about the 75 though. __________________ Current car: BMW x3 2.0d (The one with the M47 engine!) Rolled off the line on December 14th, 2004.

25th May 2018, 07:50	#6
TheSnowMan Regular poster Rover 75 1.8T Tourer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Bristol Posts: 36 Thanks: 53 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	FOC and Pump noise Thanks for all the response, I will certainly fit the clip and new o-ring just to eliminate that I had another quick look last night, and got a vid of the pump noise, its not a clunking noise, its more of a clicking noise, sounds a bit like mad morse code!! is there a relay in there? Is there a way to upload the video so bods can have a gander? Cheers again Tony

24th May 2018, 12:48	#3
suzublu This is my second home rover 75 1.8 vvc club se wedgwood blue Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Seaton Carew Posts: 26,921 Thanks: 65 Thanked 7,142 Times in 4,642 Posts	No harm in giving the filter casing a twist to make sure it's airtight. Some people use a self tapper instead of the clip to stop it moving. As said, cam sensor or crank sensor might be dodgy

24th May 2018, 18:45	#5
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,753 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	IMO, all later petrol models should fave a FOC fitted as a matter of course. If MGR hadn't failed when it did, most of these cars would have got one free with a routine service. MGR instructed their service depots to fit them as cars came in for a service. Unfortunately, the vast majority of later petrol models didn't get the FOC, so are vulnerable to FFS. They will all, sooner or later, be affected by it. You're wise to fit one even if your current issue is due to something else. TC

25th May 2018, 13:12	#9
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,753 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	Never heard anything like that before. Sounds like the bearings are worn out. TC