EU vote?

[maxi_crawf]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

Polly, the point I was making, was that we used to have the EU to sort those kind of messes out. In particular the blockade of beef by the French was declared illegal and the French government (eventually) lifted the blockade. Without the EU and a legal framework to back it up, I can see a rise in petty disputes between us and other EU nations.

And yes Gman2, I am hoping for rather more than the Victorian lifestyle described for Bob junior when the time comes!

Petty disputes, what like Gibraltar? the EU seem to do a lot about that

And by the way we still have the EU rules and regs until we actually leave.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

Not to mention the right to retire or work in the EU.

I do mention it because it was always one of my own and SWMBO's dreams - now because of the Brexit vote we may not be able to do this.

Please do not think I am trying to be all noblesse but I genuinely feel that the Country deserves better than :-

"The combined effect of having complex, all pervasive regulations and a draconian and unpredictable system of fines creates an atmosphere of perpetual legal jeopardy in a department like Defra. Every farming minister is condemned to hear the words "disallowance risk" every day of their working lives. No one really knows where they stand because it all depends on what a particular auditor on a given day might retrospectively decide. However hard we try to abide by the rules, it is inevitable that the British tax payer will be routinely stung by fines. This makes people risk averse and afraid to consider doing things differently or to try something new.

Of course, we can and do argue for reform of the system and will continue to do so but when you have 28 member states, each with completely different agricultural structures and each with totally different political make ups, coherence will never be a strong point of a Common Agricultural Policy."

The CAP for me exemplifies all that is wrong with the EU. I will happily give up my retirement dream so that the UK and the futures of all of us within it can be that much better by NOT having the stupidity of the CAP with its hindsight arbitrary fines.

And so far - yet again the scare stories put forward are being checked and found to be wanting.

It seems that Morgan Stanley never said they would relocate

It seems that the French have said that they will honour the bilateral agreement.

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

I've got a week's work in France starting Sunday - will be good to hear first hand what the word is on the street about our exit.

I for one will be very interested in your feedback - I look forward to it.

[Polly]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

And if Scotland becomes independent, what happens at the border. The EU might make it a condition for them to join the Schengen area. We'll need to get the builders in.

So there you go, I take it you will be submitting a quote? every cloud does have a silver lining after all.


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[topman]

Genuinely surprised by the result. However I think that there are alot of negotiations yet to take place, i don't think we'll leave totally. i think we are too included in the eu to leave totally and two years or more is a long time. They say a day is a long time in politics. I think some sort of eu lite membership will be fudged. After all fudged compromises are something of a British speciality.

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by maxi_crawf

Petty disputes, what like Gibraltar? the EU seem to do a lot about that

And by the way we still have the EU rules and regs until we actually leave.

Yes, I feel very sorry for the people of Gibraltar. Spain will turn the screw on them again.

Indeed, we will still adhere to EU rules and regulations for at least two years. After the negotiations on trading with the EU have completed we might still have to adhere to them if we want access to the common market, as I think Norway does.

[topman]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

After the negotiations on trading with the EU have completed we might still have to adhere to them if we want access to the common market, as I think Norway does.

Correct if you want to sell to the eu, you have to meet eu regulations.

[Polly]

Originally Posted by Gman2

What a myopic view on life - what do you mean a "worthwhile job" for starters? Affording her own house - don't tell me your blaming the start of the UK house price rise in 1997 on the EU! You reckon many would like to turn the clock back to the work / life scenario that you've described above - I'm not holding my breath! Also I sincerely hope that Bob's aspirations for his daughter is not one of "staying at home looking after the children". Blimey I thought we'd moved on from this traditionalist un-progressive think but evidently not..

Without straying too far off topic, but by worthwhile job, I mean one that gives some satisfaction to the incumbent, perhaps has a decent renumeration package, but then again the job satisfaction is far more important.
Yes, it's easy to be coy, and it avoids having to tackle the argument head on, you know perfectly well I was not advocating a return to the Middle Ages, but you know what.... Some mothers would give their right hand to be able to stay at home and look after their children. unfortunately the world we now live does not value mothers, and indeed women have brain washed into thinking they they go to work so that their children can have a better life. Well I can assure you you are wrong, the one thing a child appreciates above all else is rushing home from school to tell mummy the day's news. Something many mothers never experience. But that aside, do you think it's either sensible or desirable that a mother puts her child into nursery, perhaps paid for by the state, so that she can then go to work as shop assistant earning minimum wage?
You think it's un-progressive for a mother to stay at home and look after her children, but I will bet you are fully in favour of parental rights, and will fight tooth and nail to protect them. You see there we have it again, we all know our RIGHTS, but no mention of RESPONSIBILITIES.
Of course when I have said mother, it could equally be father, although I do think a mothers bond may be stronger than a fathers.


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[topman]

Originally Posted by Polly

Some mothers would give their right hand to be able to stay at home and look after their children. unfortunately the world we now live does not value mothers, and indeed women have brain washed into thinking they they go to work so that their children can have a better life. Well I can assure you you are wrong, the one thing a child appreciates above all else is rushing home from school to tell mummy the day's news. Something many mothers never experience. But that aside, do you think it's either sensible or desirable that a mother puts her child into nursery, perhaps paid for by the state, so that she can then go to work as shop assistant earning minimum wage?
You think it's un-progressive for a mother to stay at home and look after her children, but I will bet you are fully in favour of parental rights, and will fight tooth and nail to protect them. You see there we have it again, we all know our RIGHTS, but no mention of RESPONSIBILITIES.
Of course when I have said mother, it could equally be father, although I do think a mothers bond may be stronger than a fathers.

I think nearly all would like the choice one way or the other and not be forced into any particular path.

[wraymond]

The thought of sending my children away to a child minder every day so we could have two adults working to support the family fills me with horror. The child then grows with the added influence of the minder rather than the loving relationship solely with the mother/father and a vital family bond is lost.

Perhaps that goes some way to explaining the curious disconnect in many of todays families and the gradual lessening of parental control giving rise to behavioural problems in later life. Still, some would see that as progress I guess.

[chipsceola]

Originally Posted by Polly

Without straying too far off topic, but by worthwhile job, I mean one that gives some satisfaction to the incumbent, perhaps has a decent renumeration package, but then again the job satisfaction is far more important.
Yes, it's easy to be coy, and it avoids having to tackle the argument head on, you know perfectly well I was not advocating a return to the Middle Ages, but you know what.... Some mothers would give their right hand to be able to stay at home and look after their children. unfortunately the world we now live does not value mothers, and indeed women have brain washed into thinking they they go to work so that their children can have a better life. Well I can assure you you are wrong, the one thing a child appreciates above all else is rushing home from school to tell mummy the day's news. Something many mothers never experience. But that aside, do you think it's either sensible or desirable that a mother puts her child into nursery, perhaps paid for by the state, so that she can then go to work as shop assistant earning minimum wage?
You think it's un-progressive for a mother to stay at home and look after her children, but I will bet you are fully in favour of parental rights, and will fight tooth and nail to protect them. You see there we have it again, we all know our RIGHTS, but no mention of RESPONSIBILITIES.
Of course when I have said mother, it could equally be father, although I do think a mothers bond may be stronger than a fathers.


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You're right fathers find it important as well, I raised my 3 boys form ages 7 (twins) and 4 alone, worked p/t + state aid but like you could not bear to work full time and send boys to child minders even with state support.

They are now all in good jobs, and pay high taxes to the state in return for earlier support, and I promise you the bond between us is as strong as any maternal instinct; their mother lives an entirely separate life as she has done for past 20 years, and no she didn't leave us, we left her and never looked back.

Cat among the pigeons?

The Govt. pledged long ago to consider in parliament any on-line petition with 100,000+ votes - currently there is one on-line demanding a new referendum that requires a 75%+ turn out and a minimum 60% vote for or against staying/leaving the EU - today at 21:00hrs they already had 130,000 signatories, will be ported in press Saturday.

PS Don't shoot me only the messenger, not voted or advocating support for or against this measure.