EU vote?

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Stevie25

The LEAVE message seems to be Motherhood, Apple Pie and Jam tomorrow. Why do I find it so difficult to believe?

Errrr - just maybe because you are citing idioms whereas most of us want to discuss the real world?

Sorry Mate - but you walked right into that one...........

[Stevie25]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Errrr - just maybe because you are citing idioms whereas most of us want to discuss the real world?

Sorry Mate - but you walked right into that one...........

My real world is the Income Tax, Rates, Diesel, Road Tax, BT Internet, Electricity, Oil for heating etc - all of this is the gift of the Government little if anything to do with EU. Real world stuff.
Even Leave admit that the economy will be in difficulties, at the very least in the short term - real world stuff!
But we all have a vote- mine too is for Remain.

[Woof25]

All I will say to those persons who will vote to leave on Thursday is to quote an old Chinese proverb
"May you live in interesting times"

Fin

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Stevie25

The LEAVE message seems to be Motherhood, Apple Pie and Jam tomorrow. Why do I find it so difficult to believe?

Don't worry Steve about anyone saying how you walked into that one. They can say what they like, snip and tailor posts, or attempt to be provocative. What really matters is where you put your vote on the 23rd. The exits will be defeated!

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Gate Keeper

Don't worry Steve about anyone saying how you walked into that one. They can say what they like, snip and tailor posts, or attempt to be provocative. What really matters is where you put your vote on the 23rd. The exits will be defeated!

I think - sadly - this post exemplifies the issue both sides of the debate have.

And that is that this is a Referendum - Neither side will be defeated - the population will be given a say in how each and everyone of us want to be governed.

Whichever way the vote goes - IN means that we will either have some difficult negotiations with the EU on how we want it to change or we have to accept that change is impossible - OUT means that we have to negotiate trade deals with both the EU and the rest of the world and there could be some volatility in the short term whilst things adjust.

Of the two options I favour the later on balance.

Not least because when we bounced out of the ERM we were at rock bottom - we are no where near that situation now - the boot is on the other foot - we have a better economy that most of Europe. And when we left the ERM just 18 months later we were back on track whilst the ERM faltered and then failed.

If we vote IN - it will not be a defeat - it will be the peoples will.

If we vote OUT - that same applies.

My point about the idioms was that to state that the Out Campaign is only talking Wondrous Stories is a falsehood. I think the Out Campaign has done a far better job of outlining the pitfalls and the opportunities far better than the In Campaign who in contrast have done little but try to scare the pants off us!!!

Without any real portrayal of exactly what "Change" or "Reform" they will require the EU to undergo.

Give him his due - Jeremy Corbyn did more on this than any other Remain Campaigner - but the verdict on what he said seems to be "Goodness - if it is that bad Jeremy! - why are you advocating we stay?'"

[aguy]

I fear if we remain, we will not maintain the status quo so many remains expect.
They spend so much of their time telling us what a risk it would be to our country if we vote leave, that the risks of remaining completely escapes their notice.

Let no one be in any doubt, remaining carries just a big a threat if not more so than a vote to leave.

It's no secret the state of the Euro, the high unemployment in many countries, the poorer nations getting poorer by the day, the new countries wanting to enter will all have to be funded, largely by countries like ours.

The refugee crisis is going to be very costly to Europe and our new found commitment to building more schools, hospitals and homes will only serve to encourage more and more to flock through our open doors.

Also let's not pretend the EU will welcome us to stay with open arms. This won't happen. It will take some countries a long time to forgive Cameron and the UK for having the referendum in the first place. They have already said they are prepared to make us pay if we leave and they will hardly have a party if we stay.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by aguy

I fear if we remain, we will not maintain the status quo so many remains expect.
They spend so much of their time telling us what a risk it would be to our country if we vote leave, that the risks of remaining completely escapes their notice.

Let no one be in any doubt, remaining carries just a big a threat if not more so than a vote to leave.

It's no secret the state of the Euro, the high unemployment in many countries, the poorer nations getting poorer by the day, the new countries wanting to enter will all have to be funded, largely by countries like ours.

The refugee crisis is going to be very costly to Europe and our new found commitment to building more schools, hospitals and homes will only serve to encourage more and more to flock through our open doors.

Also let's not pretend the EU will welcome us to stay with open arms. This won't happen. It will take some countries a long time to forgive Cameron and the UK for having the referendum in the first place. They have already said they are prepared to make us pay if we leave and they will hardly have a party if we stay.

I fear you are correct on what you say in your last paragraph - and I know you are correct in your previous paragraphs.

[chipsceola]

They also say if we note for leaving, others including France and Germany will consider their own position maybe leading to one or both leaving the EU as well. Other reports have said other countries are in a similar position.

With that in mind a remain vote could well lead to better collaboration with those countries leading to major changes within the EU itself - only time will tell who is right and speaking the truth, the truth being something alien [without their own spin] on politicians everywhere regardless of race, creed or party allegiance.

[wraymond]

I’ve no idea what the ordinary people of Europe have to say, there’s precious little gets on to our news platforms. Occasionally we see snippets of unrest, vague reports of unemployment figures and short bursts of economic downturn. I suspect there is more dissatisfaction among the people than is reported and know enough to believe this UK referendum has lit up panic bonfires in Brussels/Strasbourg.

The elite in the Assembly are terrified that in the event of a Leave vote others will feel emboldened to demand the same ‘privilege’ and more secession will follow – heralding the collapse of the Union. Nobody wants to see that, there is no ill-will in this, just a need for self-expression and a return to democracy rather than a step further away from it.

In spite of the danger to their project the leaders have totally resisted all attempts at appeasement by Cameron. They have steadfastly refused to reform along more acceptable lines and dug their heels in, in spite of the impending possible disaster. If that one simple fact doesn’t give a dramatic indication as to the reform climate following an IN vote, then there is no hope for any change of direction, however small, in the future.

The pace of progress towards the stated aim of one political identity and the supremacy of the elite is increasing all the time, each stage closing the way out by degrees until there is no alternative. A Leave vote is the only way to either slow or arrest this abdication of our responsibilities to home grown values while keeping control over our collective future.

[wraymond]

The terminology gives cause for question.

Exit? No, no, no, it's an entry - or more accurately a re-entry - into the rest of the world! This isn't a leaving, it's a joining. Of the Commonwealth, the World, the freedom from the dead hand of unelected dictatorship and the dogma of post-communist socialism.

People talk about economics, understanding little of that false and predatory doctrine and without giving any thought to the cost or the least able; of immigration with no understanding of the history of Europe; of the future with no knowledge of the past.

It's about expansion and the abolition of barriers, sanctions and tariffs between first and third world countries. How else to bring the world together? Capitalism? This is not about the price of cars, houses or coffee. It's about the chance to correct the mistakes of the last 50 years, from the privations of the post-war years to the rush for the front with devil-take-the-hindmost city based bias. If we do it, others will be unable to resist the opportunity to follow.