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Old 24th May 2016, 17:06   #31
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Pro versions were safe until a few days ago but now are being targeted also.
If only that were true. I had Win 7 Ultimate and Win 7 Pro on different machines, and both were getting the upgrade 'nagware' months ago.

I "upgraded" briefly on my machine (W7U) but re-installed W7U within a couple of days.

Now back on 10 but with the connection locked down via the router so that it can't report my shoe size to M$
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Old 24th May 2016, 17:51   #32
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MS accused of nasty upgrade trick important if you don't want the upgrade
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Old 24th May 2016, 18:39   #33
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You can block it in several ways.

On a home PC download GWX Control Panel http://ultimateoutsider.com/download...PanelSetup.exe This will remove the GWX process plus all the installation files, then adjust windows update settings to advise updates but not download, and finally it installs a monitor to warn if the process reinstalls. You can then choose which updates to apply.

If you're on a windows domain, use group policy to make the admin approve all updates before deployment.

On a linux gateway or a gateway router with content control just block these domains
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com http://*.windowsupdate.microsoft.com https://*.windowsupdate.microsoft.com http://*.update.microsoft.com https://*.update.microsoft.com http://*.windowsupdate.com http://download.windowsupdate.com http://download.microsoft.com http://*.download.windowsupdate.com http://wustat.windows.com http://ntservicepack.microsoft.com http://stats.microsoft.com https://stats.microsoft.comThat will stop all updates on the internal subnet so you'd have to bring approved updates in from outside and apply manually.

If you're updating manually you want to avoid update KB3035583, this is the one that contains the downloader for the windows 10 upgrade.

I'm not a fan of windows 10. I'm sure it's great but we have an expensive ERM system that isn't ready for it yet. I'm also not a fan of being forced to upgrade without permission or being denied the software we paid money for (win7). I also don't consent to having everything I do harvested by Microsoft and adware injected onto my PC without consent, I believe software that does that is called Malware.

I will upgrade to windows 10 when our systems are ready for it, meanwhile I congratulate Microsoft on becoming the biggest malware distributor in history, it's quite an achievement.

edit: Only windows 7 and 8 have to worry about this, XP and before are safe, also enterprise and server versions are safe for now. Pro versions were safe until a few days ago but now are being targeted also.

The thing people need to realise is that even if you block communication with MS servers, the telemetry data still gets out, they have now been caught "piggybacking" data streams with edge and IE, there is NO way to fully prevent 10 from reporting back home. Ask yourself this, in plain and simple terms MS are a business, it is their JOB to make money, you can't make money by giving something away free - there is and always will be, a catch.

I will make a prediction here and say that the data you store in the cloud WILL be hacked at some point, saying it is "totally secure" is like waving a red rag to a bull in terms of hackers, I also wonder how much your data is worth to MS, maybe that's why they are giving 10 away for free.

You wait till the free trial finishes and peoples start menus are being bombarded with ads, how many will try to go back to 7 only to find that they can't after 30 days. VERY VERY BAD BUSINESS PRACTISE MS ARE USING HERE.

Finally be aware that there is a "back door" to allow the forces of good access to your PC and whilst they are supposed to obtain a court order first, do you really think that would happen?

As for support ending in 2020, thats still 4 years away and XP now has support provided by some very dedicated users.

It would of been easy for MS to continue support for XP on a subscription basis, and it would prove very lucrative because of it's market share, I would hazard a guess the reason they don't is nothing to do with not being able to "upgrade" XP to modern standards, but more to do with the fact that it isn't feasible to inject their "spyware" into the kernel.
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Last edited by Vanbursta; 24th May 2016 at 18:49..
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Old 24th May 2016, 19:56   #34
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I don't understand why people have such a big issue with the telemetry; the only part you can't disable sends just the same level of data as crash reporting in Win7/8 (which mostly happened in the background anyway...)
I get the whole issue about unwanted upgrading and the poor choice of having invasive "telemetry" enabled by default - but if you disable that, you're no worse off...

I'm not sure where this b0ll*cks about Windows 10 just being a free trial and full of adware has come from - it's simply not the case...

There is no backdoor in Windows either - again this has been done to death before - but there are that many documented security holes it's easy for the NSA/CIA/GCHQ to pick their hole and exploit it.

It's all very well saying XP has support from "dedicated users" - but without the source code there is only so much they can do to patch the security holes. It's unreasonable to expect MS to support XP forever - we understand the cars have a useful life, and eventually go for scrap - well exactly the same applies to operating systems, expect the timescale is a bit shorter. XP isn't really fit for the "modern" internet - just like a 1960 Ford Anglia isn't really suitable for your daily commute.

Imagine you have a car that suffers continuous chassis corrosion. You keep on welding patches in, but eventually you get to the point where it's not worth it because you can buy a new car with more features.

I could go on but you've clearly got a massive axe to grind against MS, and I don't want to start sounding like a fanboy, because I'm not. I dislike MS as much as the next guy, and prefer to use Linux-based systems, but I do think it's important to get the facts right.
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Old 24th May 2016, 20:16   #35
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I don't understand why people have such a big issue with the telemetry; the only part you can't disable sends just the same level of data as crash reporting in Win7/8 (which mostly happened in the background anyway...)
I get the whole issue about unwanted upgrading and the poor choice of having invasive "telemetry" enabled by default - but if you disable that, you're no worse off...

I'm not sure where this b0ll*cks about Windows 10 just being a free trial and full of adware has come from - it's simply not the case...

There is no backdoor in Windows either - again this has been done to death before - but there are that many documented security holes it's easy for the NSA/CIA/GCHQ to pick their hole and exploit it.

It's all very well saying XP has support from "dedicated users" - but without the source code there is only so much they can do to patch the security holes. It's unreasonable to expect MS to support XP forever - we understand the cars have a useful life, and eventually go for scrap - well exactly the same applies to operating systems, expect the timescale is a bit shorter. XP isn't really fit for the "modern" internet - just like a 1960 Ford Anglia isn't really suitable for your daily commute.

Imagine you have a car that suffers continuous chassis corrosion. You keep on welding patches in, but eventually you get to the point where it's not worth it because you can buy a new car with more features.

I could go on but you've clearly got a massive axe to grind against MS, and I don't want to start sounding like a fanboy, because I'm not. I dislike MS as much as the next guy, and prefer to use Linux-based systems, but I do think it's important to get the facts right.
Unfortunately you are NOT well informed if you believe all that.

Telemetry is what MS call it, that doesn't explain why it sends details of your system which include ip address, hardware id's, recently visited websites etc (check out the news on Reddit and the respected security sites).

At the moment you can opt out of Ads, MS has already confirmed that this will NOT be possible in future (Check Slyck), you can bet it will get worse when it's no longer free and you are locked into 10, if they force ads on you at the moment eventually you will just go back to 7, so they are being cautious.

CIA have also confirmed (along with the FBI) that certain "access technologies" (their terminology) have been activated by MS, they didn't specify, but I think that probably amounts to a back door, MS HAD no choice but to do that. Security holes are what patches are for, you find one, they patch it, you find another, they patch it, so by patching it they keep "us" out, but still allow "them" in, very different elements.

Large portions of XP have been decompiled, that's a matter of public record and is how they are managing to release patches for it. Not every car ever made has gone to scrap, and I would be happy to use a 1970's Cortina in modern traffic, look after any car and it will last (and be a lot easier to work on), there is nowhere you are allowed to exceed 70mph anyway! If you want to go to extremes, then I wouldn't use a model T though.

Software doesn't rot, it doesn't age and can always be bought up to modern standards. The figures speak for themselves, XP is STILL very popular, you need to ask yourself why (not everyone is using it because they are a dinosaur) image how much MS would make at £4 per month per subscriber. 10 is supposed to be evolving software, it will never go out of date, so that argument doesn't hold water.

I have no axe to grind with MS or anyone else, I do however have an intense dislike for dishonesty and subterfuge, and there is no way you can say MS is not guilty of either of those, actually I have huge respect for MS, but they got 8 badly wrong, didn't improve it with 8.1 and are now forcing 10 down peoples throats whether they like it or not. It would of been much better to be honest and say they got it wrong, rather than try to steamroller the whole thing, there is NO REASON that they couldn't of continued with 7 other than it no longer benefits them to do so, we don't need 10 and all it's "foibles"

It isn't that 10 is particularly bad, it just isn't great and can't do anything that 7 already does, using your analogy, it's like buying a new car just because the old one is 5 years old (the mentality of which is largely what's wrong here).
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Last edited by Vanbursta; 24th May 2016 at 20:26..
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Old 24th May 2016, 22:20   #36
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We'll have to agree to disagree here. Clearly you have your preferred sources and I have mine and they're saying different things (just like the newspapers).

I disagree that software doesn't age though: while the code stays the same, the hardware and the way it interacts with software does change - instruction sets are updated/introduced or even removed. So as time moves on, software becomes obsolecent by virtue of the change in hardware. Bit like a car that runs on 4* becoming obsolecent because 4*/LRP is no longer made.

XP is still very popular in raw numbers - but once you start looking more closely at them, you realise that a good chuck are African countries using recycled machines that probably won't support anything newer. And then there's the millions of Chinese pirated copies...

I do however agree with you that fundamentally this is all about trust, and MS is doing a good job of eroding that away lately.
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Old 25th May 2016, 14:38   #37
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I cant be bothered really to respond in full but to sum up, i'm not bothered really about telemetry, nothing to hide. From a business point of view I would rather be on the latest supported platform. Its GUI is user friendly and intuitive. It works with minimal specs comfortably.

The MS business model is the same as anything else. Why do you think Apple or Google update their IOS and Android systems periodically, to sell products. Its happened since the dawn of time. Things progress I(sometimes not for the better i hasten to add)

Also to say code doesn't age is ridiculous. It ages like anything else, so do compilers, language etc. If it didnt we would still be using cobalt or basic.

Also somebody said something about trading my R75 in for a new mondeo cos it was old. Well the analogy to this is flawed as Win10 for personal use is free, a new mondeo is not?

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Originally Posted by Vanbursta View Post
OK if you say so. So you are not at all worried by the "telemetry" then?

The best thing you can do with a PC with 10 is take it out into the garden, shoot it and put it out of it's misery.

Why not wait until all the rubbish is sorted out, as an IT manager you know all about 10's "foibles", I do and I certainly wouldn't want my company reliant on 10!!
How many machines do you support and whats the level of capability within the user base?

By the way i am not worried about telemetry

Last edited by Dragrad; 26th May 2016 at 00:54.. Reason: Consecutive posts - use the edit or Multi-quote :-)
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Old 25th May 2016, 23:07   #38
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From a business point of view I would rather be on the latest supported platform. Its GUI is user friendly and intuitive. It works with minimal specs comfortably.

The MS business model is the same as anything else. Why do you think Apple or Google update their IOS and Android systems periodically, to sell products. Its happened since the dawn of time. Things progress I(sometimes not for the better i hasten to add)

Also to say code doesn't age is ridiculous. It ages like anything else, so do compilers, language etc. If it didnt we would still be using cobalt or basic.

Also somebody said something about trading my R75 in for a new mondeo cos it was old. Well the analogy to this is flawed as Win10 for personal use is free, a new mondeo is not?
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The thing people need to realise is that even if you block communication with MS servers, the telemetry data still gets out,
My concern isn't about telemetry, or harvesting of user data or even backdoors.

Firstly practical considerations, if you haven't audited yet or if you know you have expensive or critical software that won't run on win10 you need to block the upgrade or potentially allow MS to cripple your business.

Secondly I have a moral issue, and I take my moral issues seriously. I don't like MS over-ruling my decision about what software is best for me right now. I don't think they have the right to decide which OS I use or the right to remove the one I chose for good reasons and paid for.

I would be equally annoyed if I stepped out tomorrow morning to find my Rover gone and scrapped without notice and a new Mondeo in it's place. It's a matter of principle, my right to chose.

That said I would be happy with win10, once I know everything will work on the new platform and that the choice is mine. The upgrade from x86 to amd64 was a much bigger jump than win7 to win10 but fortunately was not forced on me.

It's not free either BTW, only free upgrade for win7 and 8 users. It is very cheap though.
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