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Old 18th June 2019, 15:53   #41
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Grow up for goodness sake Mr Last Word
I thought you were going to ignore me?
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Old 18th June 2019, 15:54   #42
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I guess it needs lots of us to buy those goods, the established players will see the shift. The government has a part to play as well.

Ultimately, I believe that it has to be driven by the consumer and the governments. Of course large shareholders also have a part to play, as corporations always take on board the concerns of their majority shareholders.
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Old 18th June 2019, 16:00   #43
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Ultimately, I believe that it has to be driven by the consumer and the governments. Of course large shareholders also have a part to play, as corporations always take on board the concerns of their majority shareholders.
Consumers can have a limited effect - look at how consumers didn’t change their use of throw away plastic bags - even when it was clear that the bags were incredibly damaging.

It took legislation banning them to truly change people’s behaviour.
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Old 18th June 2019, 16:05   #44
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But if we did as Gatekeeper has said they have done in Kenya and introduced a ban on single use plastic bags - why cannot we introduce a similar ban for plastic packaging at the point of sale?

My point tho, is would we simply be swapping one issue for another?

If we use paper or cardboard- would obtaining the wood pulp have a knock on effect? Would the new paper mills be environmentally friendly? Because the old ones certainly were not.
http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html

Here's a good place to start comparing.
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Old 18th June 2019, 16:31   #45
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Our local co-op has started using bio degradable environmentally friendly plastic bags. Great for the food recycling bin

That seems like a good idea but I've no idea what the production costs or environmental impact of production is.

I'm quite sure someone will be able to find out.
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Old 18th June 2019, 16:49   #46
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Our local co-op has started using bio degradable environmentally friendly plastic bags. Great for the food recycling bin



That seems like a good idea but I've no idea what the production costs or environmental impact of production is.



I'm quite sure someone will be able to find out.


Currently between 30 and 40% more than the standard grade I’m afraid, we are trialling biodegradable resins at the moment, for packaging they are up to the job adequately, the problem is the customers are reluctant to pay the extra cost.
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Old 18th June 2019, 16:49   #47
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Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
I have just been watching the BBC programme War On Plastic.

Really scary stuff. There are many pollutants around, some we know about, some we (I) don't.
Washing clothes often releases small amounts of plastic from our clothes.

Wet wipes, use them? They are 80+% plastic, I never knew.

I'm not sure where the fault lies, manufacturers, retails or us the consumer. All of the above perhaps but who can make the greatest change and who has the greatest influence to force change?

With so many consumers but so few retailers, they probably have the greatest influence. If the major retailers got together gave manufacturers due warning that they were going to stop selling a product due to the amount of plastic in the product perhaps a change could be forced. With so many consumers there are too many that would not stop buying a product I don't feel it would have such a impact.

Perhaps the manufacturer that is first to go Green could steal the advantage from the others.


Whilst I may get ridiculed for this I am going to ask you to see what you can do to reduce the amount of plastic you buy.

Me, I'm going to chat to the wife about our shopping to see what we can do.

please try not to be negative should you comment.

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Together with sugar, plastics represent one of the most dangerous problem faced by humanity, and potentially one of the many nails in coffin of the blue planet, personally I believe this is the cause of the exponential rise in dementia, as minute plastic particles enter the circulation are small enough to pass through the blood brain barrier and over decades affect adversely the brain circulation leading to the vascular dementias.

It is now too late to do much about it plastics are everywhere, we are regrettably in the do dah and swimming in it up to our necks.
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Old 18th June 2019, 16:57   #48
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http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html

Here's a good place to start comparing.
Excellent - thank you TM

Useful to see the comparisons set out so clearly - but the cynic in me is checking out the source and ascertain any bias!!

But the American EPA have said that paper mills are the worst pollution sources in the US. Citing the use of Formaldehyde, Toluene and Methanol.

That list makes Fracking look positively benign
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Old 18th June 2019, 17:13   #49
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Currently between 30 and 40% more than the standard grade I’m afraid, we are trialling biodegradable resins at the moment, for packaging they are up to the job adequately, the problem is the customers are reluctant to pay the extra cost.
And this is where legislation is required. I was as guilty as anyone with the free throwaway plastic shopping bags.

Why didn’t I buy a permanent shopping bag as use that?

I think the answer was convenience, laziness and inertia. Despite me having the will and motivation to do something - I didn’t.

If a better alternative to plastic is available then I believe it will take legislation to introduce it - but we do need to be certain what we substitute is less harmful.

Look at the diesel debacle!

A classic example of legislators getting it wrong.

So I also believe we should explore the use of containerised burning of plastics for energy production - as well as the conversion of waste plastic to fuel.

Could it possibly be that if these Fat Bergs and plastic waste dumped in our oceans had a value as a resource - would that be a bigger spur to retrieve the stuff than the ineffective notion that “We really should not be doing this”?

Last edited by Darcydog; 18th June 2019 at 17:15..
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Old 18th June 2019, 17:19   #50
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Currently between 30 and 40% more than the standard grade I’m afraid, we are trialling biodegradable resins at the moment, for packaging they are up to the job adequately, the problem is the customers are reluctant to pay the extra cost.
I wondered. Thanks

You can't help thinking anything we do now is a wee bit too late. That being said, any step in the right direction is a step for the better.
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