New car buying decision

[RPWC]

I’m all for saving the planet,and would happily buy an electric car, but I have a diesel car, as we use it for towing the caravan. So until such times as they can bring out an environmentally friendly car that is capable of towing a caravan for a long trip, without having to stop and recharge, or I decide to give up caravanning, then I’m sticking with diesels.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

Statistics are wonderful

"Solid fuel stoves - wood and coal - cause 38% of Particulate Matter pollution"

Given that I believe there are no longer any coal fired power stations at all and all cities are virtually coal free where is all this burning of wood & coal happening?

I can't imagine that there's enough residential use of wood/coal out in rural areas to create more pollution than all of transport - presumably including diesel trains and HGV's?

I wonder who sponsored the report and what is their (vested) interest?

Happy for more info to help my understanding.

Andy.

Totally agree. I am deeply sceptical that these figures truly represent the emissions from coal and wood “real fires”

[MSS]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

Statistics are wonderful

"Solid fuel stoves - wood and coal - cause 38% of Particulate Matter pollution"

Given that I believe there are no longer any coal fired power stations at all and all cities are virtually coal free where is all this burning of wood & coal happening?

I can't imagine that there's enough residential use of wood/coal out in rural areas to create more pollution than all of transport - presumably including diesel trains and HGV's?

I wonder who sponsored the report and what is their (vested) interest?

Happy for more info to help my understanding.

Andy.

The comparison I have seen in various reports is that a single open fire using "wet wood" produces the same particulate matter as a large diesel truck. The number of vehicles and fires in use are not included in this comparison.

[AndyN01]

Originally Posted by mss

The comparison I have seen in various reports is that a single open fire using "wet wood" produces the same particulate matter as a large diesel truck. The number of vehicles and fires in use are not included in this comparison.

Thanks,

So IMHO we're probably looking at a totally skewed set of figures.

I'd like to see the actual volumes/weights of particulate matter produced in total per, say, year.

Let me guess that the amount produced by burning coal/wood in open fires is completely insignificant compared to that produced by "transport" in total.

But I don't think the rural coal/wood burning users have anything like the clout of the transport industry..........

Cheers.

Andy.

[RobSun]

Before retiring I was the General Manager of a large fireplace and fire manufacturer and retailing group. Wood burners and multifuel stoves were/ are the flavour of the month and sales are booming. People buy them because they think they are cheaper to run especially if they have scrap wood to burn. They think they are greener, less polluting and carbon neutral. Some of this is possibly true, ie carbon neutral, but to be so the correct wood to use is kiln dried and that is often more expensive than gas.

To be legal for use in a smoke control area (ie most towns and cities) the stove needs a DEFRA Exemption Certificate. These stoves have been tested to be cleaner when using the correct wood but can be a lot more expensive, but even so do produce more particulate than cleaner gas. Due to this a large percentage of stoves sold are not DEFRA approved and as there is no policing done (but environment control due have the power) the pollution levels have risen more than they should have if the rules were obeyed. I have one neighbour who has installed one of these and soot particles are now commonly found on our cars.

Since these stoves became more popular pollution levels have gone up considerably. We taught our sales staff to tell the truth and encourage the purchase of the correct stoves for their area and needs, but from customers who had their eyes opened it became very apparent that the competition didn't give a stuff. It does not surprise me at all that the government is looking at measures to control them, and in fact we expected that at some time it would need to happen. The marketing and hype over these things has been suspect for a long time. At least we tried to tell it as it is and advised correctly so do not feel guilty.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

Thanks,

So IMHO we're probably looking at a totally skewed set of figures.

I'd like to see the actual volumes/weights of particulate matter produced in total per, say, year.

Let me guess that the amount produced by burning coal/wood in open fires is completely insignificant compared to that produced by "transport" in total.

But I don't think the rural coal/wood burning users have anything like the clout of the transport industry..........

Cheers.

Andy.

I’ve yet to find any analysis of how these figures were derived

They are quoted more than once in the DEFRA document but no reference(s) are cited. Most unusual.

[Comfortably Numb]

I really need to do something about my carbon footprint. I run 2 pre-dpf vehicles, using (in the last 12months) over 2,000 litres of diesel. My (very) rural home uses over 2,500Litres of kerosene in its 30 year old central heating boiler per year, and we have 3 old, wood/solid fuel stoves fitted, albeit usually only one is used on any given day, and only in the winter evenings. In my defence, the stoves are far more fuel efficient than the open fires they replace.
The flue action of an open fireplace in a centrally heated room removes the heated air quite quickly. If it's not being used, block it, but fit a hit/miss vent and a rain cowl on the roof. Sorry - back to cars...!

[bl52krz]

Originally Posted by slovcan

Your wife must be a SAINT! Buy her some flowers QUICK!

Hang on a bit. What are you saying? My wife is female and one word from me and she does as she likes. .

[Rickoshea]

Hands up, we installed a wood burner in our London suburb home and most of the wood we burn is locally sourced either from our garden or those of our neighbours. It is DEFRA approved for use in smokeless zones so assume it is not outputting too much rubbish and less that those around us driving their deeply anti-social diesels cars and 4x4s.

Whilst I think man-made global warming is just nonsense, I also thing we should minimise our impact and if you can make electricity from sunshine, why would you not? We have PV panels on our roof and a Tesla battery to store it for the evenings. Last year we were 74% self sufficient and with the house heavily insulated have our combined gas and electricity bill down to under £600 a year for a 4 bed detached house occupied 24X7 by a couple of pensioners. Our petrol car clocks up 4k miles per year thanks to our access to free travel from London Transport.

Only area that would offend the tree huggers is two long haul and two short haul holidays a year but then air travel only accounts for less that 3% of CO2 whilst cement production accounts for 9%….

Sent from IBM360/30 using PL1

[grivas]

Originally Posted by Rickoshea

Hands up, we installed a wood burner in our London suburb home and most of the wood we burn is locally sourced either from our garden or those of our neighbours. It is DEFRA approved for use in smokeless zones so assume it is not outputting too much rubbish and less that those around us driving their deeply anti-social diesels cars and 4x4s.

Whilst I think man-made global warming is just nonsense, I also thing we should minimise our impact and if you can make electricity from sunshine, why would you not? We have PV panels on our roof and a Tesla battery to store it for the evenings. Last year we were 74% self sufficient and with the house heavily insulated have our combined gas and electricity bill down to under £600 a year for a 4 bed detached house occupied 24X7 by a couple of pensioners. Our petrol car clocks up 4k miles per year thanks to our access to free travel from London Transport.

Only area that would offend the tree huggers is two long haul and two short haul holidays a year but then air travel only accounts for less that 3% of CO2 whilst cement production accounts for 9%….

Sent from IBM360/30 using PL1

Well, very well done to you, so you think human activity contributes nothing and is contributing nothing towards global warming, a nonsense even, clearly a man living in a lovely suburban environment, oblivious to his surroundings, seemingly doing all the right things and enjoying a clearly well deserved retirement, having worked all his life without contributing a single thing towards global warming, tell that to the people living in the Pacific and Indian ocean basins whose island paradises will be underwater in a decade or so, that is if they are lucky.
Now, you can still carry on believing in this nonsense, or you may even wake up in between you travelling up and down the globe (without of course contributing a thing towards global warming) oblivious to the needs of others as well as to the environment in which we all live, love your quoted statistics by the way, imagine '74% self sufficient' such accuracy!.
Anyway you carry on if it pleases you, just saying...