EU vote?

[steve-45]

I still wonder if the Scots will vote OUT to try to force another independence referendum.

As Ms. Sturgon has said many times that an out vote would trigger another Scottish referendum.

[bobthebuilder]

Polly, that is your opinion but not one shared by a huge number of others, hence why it features so heavily in interviews and Q&A sessions. People want reassurance that the Leave idea has been thought through properly and won't leave the country economically disadvantaged.

And when it suits them Leave propose policies, like spending £350million more on the NHS, and removing the 5% VAT on energy (although they did quickly backtracked on that).

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Polly

Bob... You are wasting your time repeatedly calling for the Brexit team to provide you with a trade model, THEY ARE NOT IN GOVERNMENT. We have already discussed that there are several options that the government could take, but only the government can decide which option we take, and no matter which option the government finally chooses, only the government will be in a position to decide on the exact terms they would consider acceptable.
And in the ITV Scottish news tonight, I learn that under EU trade agreements, the Scottish Whisky industry pays 45% duty to export to a new and expanding market in the Far East.
Is it any wonder that we depend on the EU for 50% of our exports?


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Thank you Polly - the Norwegian model, the Swiss model or simply WTO? Then we have something I had not realised the full implications of a Common Customs Union.

I was aware of a CCU re Crown Dependancies and the CI's and the IoM but I was not really aware that Monaco Andorra, San Marino and Turkey had this preferential status.

One of the consequences of the CCU is that the European Union negotiates as a single entity in international trade deals such as the World Trade Organisation, instead of individual member states negotiating for themselves.

I find this a fascinating concept and one that we really ought to be looking at.

The customs union was a principal task of the original EEC back in 1958, - it still stands today under the EU. No customs are levied on goods travelling within the customs union and—unlike a free trade area—members of the customs union impose a common external tariff on all goods entering the union.

Monaco and the British territories of Akrotiri and Dhekelia, (Crown Colony of Cyprus) Guernsey, Isle of Man and Jersey are integral parts of the EU's customs territory, while Andorra, San Marino and Turkey, are each in a customs union with the EU.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Quite the contrary - a Strawman tactic is never "intellectual" - please raise your game.

I take it neither you nor Bob want to engage in a real debate on a Turkey type Common Customs Union?

It wasn't a strawman tactic. Let's approcah this another way.

Perhaps you yourself should explain what distinction was being drawn between "big businesses" and "SMEs" with your statement

Originally Posted by Darcydog

We all know what BIG business wants -

But people at the sharp end think differently it seems

More than 200 bosses of small firms have signed an open letter urging Britain to leave the European Union.

Also, do you accept that big business operate at the sharpest end of the game called competitive behaviour and risk taking (both the big business and their employees)?

It appears that certain individuals will offer BSB all day but cannot handle the simplest of challenges to their offerings from fellow members without becoming nasty and resorting to statements like "please raise your game".

I could follow another's example and say what a load of T.... But I don't think that would be polite or helpful.

[wraymond]

Oh, blow it.

Yawn. How to ruin a great thread. First and foremost we are gentlemen. Secondly, we are adults. Aren't we?

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by mss

It wasn't a strawman tactic. Let's approcah this another way.

Perhaps you yourself should explain what distinction was being drawn between "big businesses" and "SMEs" with your statement



Also, do you accept that big business operate at the sharpest end of the game called competitive behaviour and risk taking (both the big business and their employees)?

It appears that certain individuals will offer BSB all day but cannot handle the simplest of challenges to their offerings from fellow members without becoming nasty and resorting to statements like "please raise your game".

I could follow another's example and say what a load of T.... But I don't think that would be polite or helpful.

If you think what I say is Twaddle then don't be shy!!! - say it as it is.

You are allowed - Twaddle is a brilliant word that refers to what is written or said and does not infer a personal criticism. So if you want to please do. I cannot possibly be offended as I know and appreciate the meaning of the word.

And to answer your question - No I do not think that big business operates at the sharpest end of the market. But I do appreciate what big business can do.

I went out on my own after an appraisal from a truly wonderful manager who described me in these terms.

"The Company is like an oil tanker. It has its direction that the Captain has determined and even if we wanted to change it, just slowing down will take ages and changing direction is not easy and takes miles of space. It is slow and ponderous but it gets there and it carries lots of baggage and lots of passengers. (Note - we had a good laugh at the irony of the term "passenger")

You, however are on your own speedboat racing on a tangental course and then radioing back that this great big oil tanker of a company should be over here."

And he was absolutely correct - I left and got more experience with other firms then set up my own. And my old company used us again for some projects so I had the absolute pleasure of working with my friend who had been my boss again.

I never looked back but by God it was hard and I am sure I went prematurely grey because of it.

I have enormous respect for people who have the guts and the spherical objects to start their own business. But my experience of doing so is that Government/EU does virtually nothing to help you at all - but as soon as you have a modicum of success then they are there, at your door with rules on how you must do this and that that sap your enthusiasm and frankly, make you lose the will to live.

I have personal experience of this and I hope you believe me when I say I am passionate in getting rid of EU driven Red Tape WILL be a huge benefit.

Whereas big business simply reaches a level of inertia that they can be "too big to fail" - the Banks were deemed thus

[Polly]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

Polly, that is your opinion but not one shared by a huge number of others, hence why it features so heavily in interviews and Q&A sessions. People want reassurance that the Leave idea has been thought through properly and won't leave the country economically disadvantaged.

And when it suits them Leave propose policies, like spending £350million more on the NHS, and removing the 5% VAT on energy (although they did quickly backtracked on that).

I'm sorry Bob, but which part do you consider to be " my opinion"
1: has there been a new political party created overnight?
(Hmmm I might just vote for the Brexit party)
2: who will be governing the UK on the 24th June
3: who negotiated the 45% tax on whisky
4: do you think the tax on a new BMW would be at the same rate
5: if not, why not


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[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Oh, blow it.

Yawn. How to ruin a great thread. First and foremost we are gentlemen. Secondly, we are adults. Aren't we?

Well said Sir!

Originally Posted by Polly

I'm sorry Bob, but which part do you consider to be " my opinion"
1: has there been a new political party created overnight?
(Hmmm I might just vote for the Brexit party)
2: who will be governing the UK on the 24th June
3: who negotiated the 45% tax on whisky
4: do you think the tax on a new BMW would be at the same rate
5: if not, why not


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i hope you get an answer Polly but i fear that Bob and MSS only answer the questions they make out have asked - not the ones you actually ask

[MSS]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Oh, blow it.

Yawn. How to ruin a great thread. First and foremost we are gentlemen. Secondly, we are adults. Aren't we?

The majority, yes.

Universally so, well....let's just say that the evidence would suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by Darcydog

i hope you get an answer Polly but i fear that Bob and MSS only answer the questions they make out have asked - not the ones you actually ask

remember, we are gentlemen!

[Polly]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

MGJ, so if you agree Cameron and Boris won't protect workers rights with the WTD gone, who will?



You've mentioned honourable Mr Farage voting to make himself redundant before. He ain't going nowhere, he has a little bit of power and won't hand that away. Interestingly, talking about the EU gravy train, he's earned the equivalent of over £3 million out of the EU, clever man!



And why the interest in Jezzer? He's a peripheral figure, so maybe best to discuss the issues than his enthusiasm or lack of it for the referendum?

I assume you do realise that the WTD is written into UK law so wouldn't just be "gone"as your post suggests. I am however prepared to agree that a Tory government might want to repeal that bit of legislation, but we do have those rather annoying and unelected lords, to put a spanner in their plans.


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