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Old 19th June 2019, 11:00   #71
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Absolutely not Phil!! I had a fear that your sensible comment would engender another “war of words” - I was simply trying to portray myself sitting down to watch the resulting fireworks!!
Cheers Clive, no worries. I haven’t tried tree hugging, but 2 years ago I did try going to the rollright stones, in the Cotswolds for stone hugging. One of the stones is thermal and gives off heat, why I don’t know, maybe linked to thermal energy. The stones are believed to be 5,000 years old and in ancient times, women went to the stones at midnight to get pregnant and apparently it worked. I wonder if there was a man there A happy story and apologies for going off topic.
https://www.cotswoldsmysterytour.co....lright-stones/
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Old 19th June 2019, 11:58   #72
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Cheers Clive, no worries. I haven’t tried tree hugging, but 2 years ago I did try going to the rollright stones, in the Cotswolds for stone hugging. One of the stones is thermal and gives off heat, why I don’t know, maybe linked to thermal energy. The stones are believed to be 5,000 years old and in ancient times, women went to the stones at midnight to get pregnant and apparently it worked. I wonder if there was a man there A happy story and apologies for going off topic.
https://www.cotswoldsmysterytour.co....lright-stones/
Not at all Phil - tho it’s sad that my “secret of the stones” is now out. Haven’t done that for a while. The stone surface plays Merry hell with my knees now.
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Old 19th June 2019, 12:09   #73
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This may be of interest, makes sad reading
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Old 19th June 2019, 12:29   #74
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I've seen information about bioplastics being produced from the likes of seaweed and cactus - it remains to be seen whether these can be scaled up to meet "demand". NB I put that last word in inverted commas because of the difference between plastics which are more necessary for health reasons, e.g. medical use or prevention of food contamination with raw meat/fish etc, and those which are more obviously and frivolously wasteful such as Easter egg packaging.

As an individual, I do my utmost to avoid the unnecessary acquisition of plastics. For example, when I buy groceries, I get my loose fruit & veg in a paper bag - these get reused as often as possible while they retain their physical integrity before getting a final use as the lining for my kitchen composter. They do break down in my own compost bin, unlike the so-called "biodegradable" composting bags supermarkets sell. When I buy meat or fish, I try to remember to have a reusable sealable container with me like a tupperware box, and I've refused to buy certain items from my local butcher when they came double-wrapped in plastic, making a point of explaining why he was losing my business in this particular instance. Another example is that we've changed from buying shower gel in a bottle to soap bars wrapped in paper, and my wife has now sourced shampoo bars as well.

In short, we do our best to prioritise the "reduce" and "reuse" approach before we even get as far as "recycle". In a household of two, our recycling bin only really needs to go out every 4-6 weeks, and that mainly because we often end up grabbing a used cardboard box if we're in the supermarket and have once again forgotten to bring a reusable bag with us. If I stopped drinking and didn't have all those wine and beer bottles to process, it would go out even less often!

All that said, the onus should not be on us as individuals to try and fight back against the proliferation of plastic in our lives. It's insane to see bunches of bananas being sold in a plastic bag when the skin is so robust. Why the hell does every cup of takeaway coffee need a lid made of black plastic that's so hard to recycle? Why aren't there greater incentives for people to bring their own containers for cereal, milk, beer, wine etc? If everything cost 5% cheaper so long as you brought your own containers, you can be sure that the vast majority of customers would jump onboard. Ditto if there were deposits payable on returning clean, undamaged plastic containers like bottles etc.

I get the point about cleaner alternatives having a higher price, but there's a response to that issue which is often missed out - the real cost of these materials is not reflected in the price paid. This is because the producers of plastic (especially single-use plastic) are not being made to contribute to the cost of recovering and cleaning up the mess their product ultimately creates. Nor is the cost to our own health and the planet's health factored into the price of these materials. Were the cost of cleanup covered by a substantial tax on plastic packaging and other single-use products, this would substantially equalise the price differential between plastic and biodegradable alternatives. It would also raise some much needed funds towards removing plastics from the oceans and waterways. We can't simply throw up our hands and surrender to the notion that phenomena like the "Great Pacific Garbage Patch" are just an accepted or inevitable consequence of our existence. This has to be addressed, and the cost of the cleanup has to be paid one way or another.

Of course, as soon as the notion of using taxation to change behaviours is mentioned, there are inevitable cries of how the gubberment is using the environment as an excuse to hike taxes. The change of mindset required to resolve this issue will be vehemently resisted by those who are too lazy, selfish and/or greedy to care.
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Old 19th June 2019, 13:21   #75
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Much of our problems are we are too rich and too lazy, and notice "we" word and usually think "they" should do something about it. Legislation doesn't work well, for the same reason "too rich and too lazy" ie cant be bothered to enforce it because it costs money and that might cost votes and aggravation,somewhere someone might object. The solution is in our own hands. Chris S.
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Old 19th June 2019, 13:44   #76
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Much of our problems are we are too rich and too lazy, and notice "we" word and usually think "they" should do something about it. Legislation doesn't work well, for the same reason "too rich and too lazy" ie cant be bothered to enforce it because it costs money and that might cost votes and aggravation,somewhere someone might object. The solution is in our own hands. Chris S.
I’m certainly not a fan of more legislation - but I have to say the one use supermarket plastic bag changed my view.

I knew I should be better organised - that was all I had to do - plan better.

But I never did

It took legislation to force me to do what I should have done.
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Old 24th June 2019, 09:19   #77
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https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update...24591021264896
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Old 24th June 2019, 14:55   #78
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One of the "claim to fame" for the Rover 75 is that it was the first volume produced car to have a plastic pedal box:-.

Here is the sales and marketing blurb from Dupont, at the time:-

"The Rover 75 is the first volume-production saloon car to have an injection-moulded plastic pedal bracket. Made by Dura Automotive Inc., the part is moulded from glass-reinforced Zytel nylon.
Powerful and silent: to serve Rover’s aim of reducing noise in the passenger compartment of the Rover 75 to a minimum, DuPont’s specialized NVH (Noise, Vibration and Harshness) facility in Hemel Hempstead (UK) analysed the vibration-absorption characteristics of the pedal bracket component of Zytel.
The new Rover 75 is in fact considered to be a class-leader in noise suppression.
"

Plastic is often thought to be the wonder material.
Now we have to put up with it, with the creaking pedal boxes and issues with plastic clutch parts, manifolds and many more plastic components failing.

Give me heavy metal any day
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Old 25th June 2019, 20:11   #79
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I agree with posts 74 and 75 entirely. We the consumers need to start taking responsibility for our decisions and actions.

I was up Conwy mountain in North Wales couple of days ago and managed to finish my flask of tea whilst relishing the views and spending a few ours pondering about life whilst sitting on top the various peaks. When I came down, I took my steel mug into a coffee shop and asked the teenage girl behind the counter in a small coffee shop if she would fill the cup with a coffee. No problem and I got a great smile from her with it.

I hate the thought of throwing away a plastic cup and top with every tea or coffee when out and about.

Actions like this take so little effort.
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Old 26th June 2019, 06:31   #80
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The problem we have is even the cars we drive have a large amount of plastic that is either unrecyclable or even if it is the company breaking the vehicle at the end of its life rarely do as it is easier to burn or skip it.

With the governments trying to make the cars on the roads cleaner they are actually making the problem worse, perfectly good vehicles are being scrapped well before the end of there life just so we produce less emissions.

I was reading a report a couple of years ago before all this plastic thing kicked off and it was saying the most environmental friendly cars are the ones that last 20 or more years. You have to travel about 80000 miles in the average car to equal the amount of energy it takes to make the same vehicle and don't get me started on the environmental impact on electric vehicles in a few years.
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