Brexit negotiation in a nutshel

[Gino]

Regardless of how people voted in the referendum, as a country we need to pull together, especially the ruling classes who will be deciding our future.
I have found it immensely disturbing that David Davies etc. have come across as being very weak & disorganised. What we need is strong leadership & this is sadly lacking.
I had hoped Teresa May would be a surprisingly good leader for Brexit, seeing as she voted against it.

Rob

[mystabe]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Germany is an interesting example - we buy more from them than they buy from us. So if we have to go to WTO rules then Germany would be the net loser.

As for the comment “if emerging markets actually exist” - this actually confirms the considerable genuine ignorance of many in the remain camp.

Having spoken to many - I am forming the opinion that an awful lot of them are like Americans - totally bemused and ignorant about events, geography and history outside of the United States of America.

Heaven forbid our children ever became that insular that THEIR world was restricted to the United States of Europe!

Apart from being quite insulting and ill informed about my knowledge of the world do you actually own a business that buys or sells anything from other countries - or is this just a 'it was better in the early 70's thing?'

In 2017 (rather than 1973) I'll be honest I'm struggling a bit now as people tighten their wallets/purses - and that's selling products bought/made before sterling crashed, once I start having to pass on the price increase to customers it's not going to get any better is it. Can you suggest an emerging market I sell £50k's worth of stock of European type Fly Fishing tools and materials to?

Probably not, so what is the point of effectively taking my (and a lot of other small businesses) market away for £20 billion extra? - you don't really think they have that money earmarked for the NHS or other common people do you?

[andymc]

So Germany currently sells more to Britain than it buys from Britain. Hmm. How important is Germany as a target market for Britain?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exporting-to-germany

Germany has a Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of more than €3 trillion. This makes it the largest economy in Europe and the fourth strongest economy in the world.

Germany is the UK’s largest export market in Europe and second largest globally after the US.

This link is interesting - https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/
It tells us that 11% of Britain's exports go to Germany, while 14% of its imports come from Germany.

This related link is also interesting - https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/deu/
It tells us that 7.1% of Germany's exports go to Britain, while 3.8% of its imports come from Britain.

Which country will find it easier to identify new markets to make up any deficit in the event of trading on WTO terms? As a leading member of a global trading bloc, Germany may not find this problem to be entirely insurmountable - even if they lack a foreign minister with the diplomatic skills of Boris Johnson or an international development minister like ... who's the latest one playing musical chairs? It's hard to keep up.

[mystabe]

7.1% isn't exactly going to worry them - even if it drops to 3% - emerging markets

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by mystabe

Pacific Trade Agreement? - we're not part of that are we?

Look at a world map that highlights the EU, people with a decent standard of living and who want what I sell - look at the rest of the World...... yes, in 35 years that might all change but I live in the now, I have no choice.....

Lets shut ourselves away though eh, it's the future - we have no industry and a very small indigenous skilled workforce so it'll be fine in a couple of years.....

Why mention the Pacific Trade Agreement? - it does not apply to all emerging markets? And don’t forget that whilst the term “emerging markets” is still used - this term described those markets as they were decades ago.

They are very much ‘New Established Markets’ now.

Go spend some time in places like Singapore - Malaysia - I have - their work ethic is amazing. Puts us to shame.

Going back to Dyson - one of the reasons he moved his production to Malaysia was because he apparently wanted a yellow plug to match the colour schemes of his machines - not one plug manufacturer in the U.K. could provide him with what he wanted.

I think we have to accept that manufacturing is not going to be something the U.K. does that well any more given the quality, cost and “can do” attitude of these “emerging markets”. What we excell at is the Service side, the innovation and the technology.

We have plenty to offer the world in these and similar areas - why on earth do we want to retain membership of an expensive moribund “club” whose main aim is to distribute our wealth to other club members?

If we were an old eastern block country with a broken economy and a depressed workforce I would be all for staying in the EU. But we are not.

We have significant assets - let’s not waste them.

Best we align ourselves with growing economies rather than stagnating ones.

[andymc]

High-flying economies, surely?

[Billy1mate]

It sums it up in a light hearted way, maybe it should actually be pitched to Barmy Barnier. :-)

[mystabe]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Why mention the Pacific Trade Agreement? - it does not apply to all emerging markets? And don’t forget that whilst the term “emerging markets” is still used - this term described those markets as they were decades ago.

They are very much ‘New Established Markets’ now.

Go spend some time in places like Singapore - Malaysia - I have - their work ethic is amazing. Puts us to shame.

Going back to Dyson - one of the reasons he moved his production to Malaysia was because he apparently wanted a yellow plug to match the colour schemes of his machines - not one plug manufacturer in the U.K. could provide him with what he wanted.

I think we have to accept that manufacturing is not going to be something the U.K. does that well any more given the quality, cost and “can do” attitude of these “emerging markets”. What we excell at is the Service side, the innovation and the technology.

We have plenty to offer the world in these and similar areas - why on earth do we want to retain membership of an expensive moribund “club” whose main aim is to distribute our wealth to other club members?

If we were an old eastern block country with a broken economy and a depressed workforce I would be all for staying in the EU. But we are not.

We have significant assets - let’s not waste them.

Best we align ourselves with growing economies rather than stagnating ones.

Yellow plugs? so rather than tool up to make yellow plugs and give British workers a job he chose to go to Malaysia - doesn't bode well does it

Service - how many times do you speak to an actual British person? rubbish call centre jobs - already long gone

[mystabe]

Originally Posted by mystabe

Apart from being quite insulting and ill informed about my knowledge of the world do you actually own a business that buys or sells anything from other countries - or is this just a 'it was better in the early 70's thing?'

In 2017 (rather than 1973) I'll be honest I'm struggling a bit now as people tighten their wallets/purses - and that's selling products bought/made before sterling crashed, once I start having to pass on the price increase to customers it's not going to get any better is it. Can you suggest an emerging market I sell £50k's worth of stock of European type Fly Fishing tools and materials to?

Probably not, so what is the point of effectively taking my (and a lot of other small businesses) market away for £20 billion extra? - you don't really think they have that money earmarked for the NHS or other common people do you?

and I still want your answer to ths Darcydog before I take anything else you say seriously

[Stevie25]

Brexit must be the only time in history that a country finds itself negotiating a worse trade deal than the one it already has! Sad times.
Was this what people really voted for?

This is my final contribution to this thread, before Mod's close it down.