Need to know a bit about the OEM Clutch

italianstallion · 21st July 2017, 00:57

Hello, it's been a while since I was last on the forums, several years in fact.

I've now taken on my Mum's Rover 75 2.0 Diesel Connossieur, she's happy with her Citroen C3 Picasso, and the car wasn't getting used, so nice to be back.

After 3 days of driving the car, and enjoying being back in Rover land, the clutch has gone and the car has had to be recovered. The strange thing is, we only replaced the clutch not so long ago (few years) and it's done minimal milage since (20k).

A brand new clutch has now been installed as of yesterday, but the garage undertaking the repair highly suspects the clutch they removed was never replaced at all and the car was still running on it's first clutch. This means my mum is £400 down for a clutch that was never fitted. I had my own suspicions it was never done by the heavy feel, and it has had issues ever since it was supposedly replaced, stiff, rising short, plate sticking and gear change sticking, it has been recovered several times since the supposed new clutch was fitted, or not fitted so it appears in this case.

Anyway the good news, the clutch fitted yesterday has been replaced properly, it's light / not stiff and is rising to the proper height, so we have a car with a good clutch at last.

I have raised a case with the clutch centre that supposedly replaced the clutch the last time!! I now just need to see if I can prove if the clutch removed yesterday, is the original factory fitted clutch so I can evidence that they never replaced it, or to put it bluntly took our money and never did the job.

Can anyone advise me, what clutches were used off the production line for the 75 2.0 Diesel, e.g. brand, or any references I should look for to indicate that it's a factory clutch. If I can prove this then I have the evidence needed to get a refund, but more importantly get the clutch centre to look at the staff at the branch who have fobbed us off, they need sacking, it amounts to fraud!!!

Anyway, sorry to arrive back with an issue as my first post, but hopefully I might be able to get my mum her £400 back for a job never done!!!

Rooney · 21st July 2017, 06:48

You're approaching this from the wrong angle.

You won't be able to prove anything unless the invoice the garage gave you shows they claim to have fitted one type or brand of clutch and the one removed wasn't the brand they specified.

OEM clutches are sourceable.

For info, the oem clutch hydraulics were AP Lockheed (Raicam Clutch Ltd in the UK) as were the clutch plates. The dmf was manufactured by LUK.

Good luck, but I sugggest your grounds to dispute the work would be on a question of warranty rather than a likely unprovable question of their honesty. Is 20,000 miles a reasonable life for a replacement clutch? I'd say not, and I'd have no difficulty winning that argument in a county court.

Mike Noc · 21st July 2017, 07:53

Some 'Clutch Centres' use very cheap parts, and if that happened in your case 20k miles may be about right depending on how it was driven.

italianstallion · 21st July 2017, 21:46

Thanks, good advice, and yes certainly a better angle to approach it from. Unfortunately it's well out of warranty, so I'm trying to evidence that the repair was never done in the first place. The garage I've replaced the clutch with in the past week, showed me where the retaining bolt was cross threaded from the last attempt, in their opinion the last clutch fitter gave up and just left it and probably just bled the clutch, but still charge my dear old mum £400 for a new one. I've retained the now removed clutch and I've sent pictures to an independant MG Rover specialist to give me their opinion.

The new clutch on the car transformed the it, if only this had been done 4 or 5years ago, my mum might not have given up driving it.

Rooney · 21st July 2017, 21:50

Contact marinabrian on here - he'll be able to help you with info about the clutch.

And don't worry about warranties that expire - SOGA allows six years for you to demonstrate that a product wasn't fit for purpose, wasn't as described or wasn't of satisfactory quality.

Company warranties are basically an addition to your rights not a replacement for them

italianstallion · 21st July 2017, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooney

Contact marinabrian on here - he'll be able to help you with info about the clutch.

And don't worry about warranties that expire - SOGA allows six years for you to demonstrate that a product wasn't fit for purpose, wasn't as described or wasn't of satisfactory quality.

Company warranties are basically an addition to your rights not a replacement for them

Cheers thats really helpful, I'll drop him a message.

Best_of_British · 21st July 2017, 22:22

Damn if photobucket would work i could post pics of original plate. It would not have springs and have the German for gearbox printed on one side from memory.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

marinabrian · 22nd July 2017, 17:05

WIthout any question if you suspect the fitted at the factory AP clutch was still in the car, this can be confirmed by looking at the pipework of the slave cylinder........the original pipework is plastic and not metal.

If a LUK slave cylinder was fitted, this will have the date of manufacture on a white plastic band on one of the metal pipes, which will be green in colour.

And as mentioned, the original clutch will not have radial springs fitted in the centre of the driven plate

Brian

italianstallion · 23rd July 2017, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

WIthout any question if you suspect the fitted at the factory AP clutch was still in the car, this can be confirmed by looking at the pipework of the slave cylinder........the original pipework is plastic and not metal.

If a LUK slave cylinder was fitted, this will have the date of manufacture on a white plastic band on one of the metal pipes, which will be green in colour.

And as mentioned, the original clutch will not have radial springs fitted in the centre of the driven plate

Brian

That's really helpful information, it looks as though the clutch taken off may not have been factory then. Photos as below :

Brunty · 23rd July 2017, 20:56

Correct, original clutch was a solid type, did not have the springs fitted!

21st July 2017, 00:57	#1
italianstallion Loves to post Currently - Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Wakefield Posts: 447 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need to know a bit about the OEM Clutch Hello, it's been a while since I was last on the forums, several years in fact. I've now taken on my Mum's Rover 75 2.0 Diesel Connossieur, she's happy with her Citroen C3 Picasso, and the car wasn't getting used, so nice to be back. After 3 days of driving the car, and enjoying being back in Rover land, the clutch has gone and the car has had to be recovered. The strange thing is, we only replaced the clutch not so long ago (few years) and it's done minimal milage since (20k). A brand new clutch has now been installed as of yesterday, but the garage undertaking the repair highly suspects the clutch they removed was never replaced at all and the car was still running on it's first clutch. This means my mum is £400 down for a clutch that was never fitted. I had my own suspicions it was never done by the heavy feel, and it has had issues ever since it was supposedly replaced, stiff, rising short, plate sticking and gear change sticking, it has been recovered several times since the supposed new clutch was fitted, or not fitted so it appears in this case. Anyway the good news, the clutch fitted yesterday has been replaced properly, it's light / not stiff and is rising to the proper height, so we have a car with a good clutch at last. I have raised a case with the clutch centre that supposedly replaced the clutch the last time!! I now just need to see if I can prove if the clutch removed yesterday, is the original factory fitted clutch so I can evidence that they never replaced it, or to put it bluntly took our money and never did the job. Can anyone advise me, what clutches were used off the production line for the 75 2.0 Diesel, e.g. brand, or any references I should look for to indicate that it's a factory clutch. If I can prove this then I have the evidence needed to get a refund, but more importantly get the clutch centre to look at the staff at the branch who have fobbed us off, they need sacking, it amounts to fraud!!! Anyway, sorry to arrive back with an issue as my first post, but hopefully I might be able to get my mum her £400 back for a job never done!!! Last edited by italianstallion; 21st July 2017 at 01:16..

21st July 2017, 06:48	#2
Rooney Suspended MG ZT 135+ Rover 75 CDTi Tourer, 75 2.5 V6 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: County Antrim Posts: 2,027 Thanks: 835 Thanked 882 Times in 557 Posts	You're approaching this from the wrong angle. You won't be able to prove anything unless the invoice the garage gave you shows they claim to have fitted one type or brand of clutch and the one removed wasn't the brand they specified. OEM clutches are sourceable. For info, the oem clutch hydraulics were AP Lockheed (Raicam Clutch Ltd in the UK) as were the clutch plates. The dmf was manufactured by LUK. Good luck, but I sugggest your grounds to dispute the work would be on a question of warranty rather than a likely unprovable question of their honesty. Is 20,000 miles a reasonable life for a replacement clutch? I'd say not, and I'd have no difficulty winning that argument in a county court.

21st July 2017, 07:53	#3
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,548 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Some 'Clutch Centres' use very cheap parts, and if that happened in your case 20k miles may be about right depending on how it was driven.

21st July 2017, 21:46	#4
italianstallion Loves to post Currently - Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Wakefield Posts: 447 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, good advice, and yes certainly a better angle to approach it from. Unfortunately it's well out of warranty, so I'm trying to evidence that the repair was never done in the first place. The garage I've replaced the clutch with in the past week, showed me where the retaining bolt was cross threaded from the last attempt, in their opinion the last clutch fitter gave up and just left it and probably just bled the clutch, but still charge my dear old mum £400 for a new one. I've retained the now removed clutch and I've sent pictures to an independant MG Rover specialist to give me their opinion. The new clutch on the car transformed the it, if only this had been done 4 or 5years ago, my mum might not have given up driving it.

21st July 2017, 21:50	#5
Rooney Suspended MG ZT 135+ Rover 75 CDTi Tourer, 75 2.5 V6 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: County Antrim Posts: 2,027 Thanks: 835 Thanked 882 Times in 557 Posts	Contact marinabrian on here - he'll be able to help you with info about the clutch. And don't worry about warranties that expire - SOGA allows six years for you to demonstrate that a product wasn't fit for purpose, wasn't as described or wasn't of satisfactory quality. Company warranties are basically an addition to your rights not a replacement for them

21st July 2017, 22:22	#7
Best_of_British Gets stuck in Rover 75 Tourer & Arden Green Project Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Ormskirk Posts: 932 Thanks: 159 Thanked 200 Times in 155 Posts	Damn if photobucket would work i could post pics of original plate. It would not have springs and have the German for gearbox printed on one side from memory. Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

22nd July 2017, 17:05	#8
marinabrian MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 20,151 Thanks: 3,565 Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts	WIthout any question if you suspect the fitted at the factory AP clutch was still in the car, this can be confirmed by looking at the pipework of the slave cylinder........the original pipework is plastic and not metal. If a LUK slave cylinder was fitted, this will have the date of manufacture on a white plastic band on one of the metal pipes, which will be green in colour. And as mentioned, the original clutch will not have radial springs fitted in the centre of the driven plate Brian

23rd July 2017, 20:56	#10
Brunty Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Newtown Posts: 415 Thanks: 273 Thanked 95 Times in 65 Posts	Correct, original clutch was a solid type, did not have the springs fitted!